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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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More Electrical problems

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ryanNva

08-29-2005 18:50:16




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I'm beginning to think getting this old of a tractor was a mistake. Since getting it home i've been able to start it and use it twice. Here is the problem. When i push the ignition switch i am getting a clicking sound from the solenoid. I measured the voltage across and am getting 11.7 before pushing button and it drops to 8.9 while pushing button. I have checked all connections and fixed all grounding points. I even replaced the connector for the positive hook up to the battery and replaced the ground cable all together. I also measure what i get at starter and it is obviously the same as the solenoid. I can jump it and it turns over fine. Is this an indication of the need for a new battery?? I have the charger on it tonight and am going to leave it on till tomorrow evening when i get home. This might end up being one of those where i will need to keep a trickle charge on the battery when not being used. Any thoughts from ya'll electrical guru's?

also, i am assuming it has been converted since it is using a 12 volt battery. there is a little white board thing with a connector going to ignition switch and the other going to the coil.

Where does the ammeter hook up??'

Where does the tachometer hook up??

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souNdguy

08-30-2005 06:12:53




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to ryanNva , 08-29-2005 18:50:16  
Ryan.. a few things first.

Do you really have an old style alternator conversion.. like a 60's or 70's alternator that uses an external voltage regulator? Or do you have a generator that uses the voltage regulator.

Most modern alternators have internal voltage regulators.. not external ones.

Now.. as Dell said.. many people add a dropping resistor to the 6v coil to use it on a 12v system... IMHO.. it's better to just get a real 12v coil.

Also.. I'm guessing that when you said that the system voltage dropped when you hit the ignition switch.. and then the solenoid clicked.. you really meant starter switch.. and not ignition switch.. If your system voltage drops when the wimpy 4 amp ignition comes on.. then the battery is bone-dead.

If your system voltage drops when you hit the starter button and the solenoid engages 9clicks ).. then the battery is badly discharged or.. just ..bad.

Yor 4 wire solenoid is not oem.. however sounds like it may be hooked up ok.. a hot wire to one isolated post.. and the other isolated post to the thumb button for ground.. etc. Normally the solenoid would be a 3 terminal unit.. however the 4 terminal iso unit will work as specified.

Soundguy

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Dell (WA)

08-30-2005 00:12:18




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to ryanNva , 08-29-2005 18:50:16  
Ryan..... ...gotta remember to remind us what model tractor you have. I flunked mindreading, just ask my ex-wife of 32yrs.

8N's came from the factory with 6-volt battery and 3-terminal starter solenoids. The starter solenoid is internally HOT and operated by GROUNDING the little middle terminal by yer BIG thumb starter push-button by the tranny shifter. Iff'n yer 6v starter solenoid just clicks and draggs yer 12v battery down from 11.7 (should be about 12.6) to 8.9 volts. Guess what? YER 12V BATTERY IS BAD.

Many 12v converters continue to use the OEM 6-volt roundcan ignition coil and a white ceramic 12v-to-6v convering resistor, 'cuz its cheap. Me? I'd use a real 12v roundcan coil and NO resistor. NAPA IC-14SB is a real 12v coil that uses NO resistors.

Tachometer is speedometer cable driven from the back of the governor.

Unfortunately, many 12v conversions are a fly-by-nite "band-aide" to start a worn-out engine..... ....respectfully, Dell, a 12v advocate for the right reasons

That said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6-volt 52 8N, and I know how to do it right the first time. Infact I know 8-ways to do it right and they all work.

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ryanNva

08-30-2005 05:21:26




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2005 00:12:18  
sorry bout that, i have a 53 NAA. I also have a 4 post solenoid, the two big ones on either side and then two small posts in the center with one wire hooked up going to the voltage regulator. I am guessing that my battery is bad also. I will check tonight to see if it is holding its charge. On these tractor systems how does the battery get its charge?? I notice that there is only one wire going to my positive battery terminal which goes up to the voltage regulator. The wires from alternator go to voltage regulator as well.

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Dell (WA)

08-30-2005 07:29:50




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to ryanNva, 08-30-2005 05:21:26  
Ryan..... ....told ya I flunked mindreading. The NAA Jubilee is wholely DIFFERENT from the 8N which is what I assumed you had. The 12v conversion is different because the popular conversions uses the GM Delco 10-SI alternator with built-in voltage regulator and you are talking about an external voltage regulator with an alternator.

As for yer 4-post starter solenoid, theres 2-types and its hard to guess which one you have. 1-type is an ignition coil resistor by-pass for starting purposes. The OTHER type is isolated coil with externally supplied HOT and ground terminals wires thru the ignition key switch, but not necessarily, could come from yer voltage regulator as described.

You ask how yer battery gitts its charge? It should be intuitively obvious that the voltage regulator HEAVY wire going to the battery is how the battery gitts it charge. Usually that same wire is fed thru the ampmeter to indicate how much you are charging/discharging the battery..... ...respectfully, Dell

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ryanNva

08-30-2005 08:00:12




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2005 07:29:50  
First off, i have an aftermarket ignition switch as the oem one doesn't work. I have a toggle switch - on/off - that is directly wired from voltage regulator to reisitor board to coil. Then i have the aftermarket push button ignition switch. I notice that there is a wire going from voltage regulator up to amp meter but then thats it, only wire hooked up to it. Where would the wire be coming back down from the amp meter hook up? i might hunker down and draw up a diagram.

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Dell (WA)

08-30-2005 08:57:18




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to ryanNva, 08-30-2005 08:00:12  
Ryan..... ....I keep telling you, I flunked mindreading. I can't continue to guess what abomination of miss-mash wiring you have iff'n you don't describe it better 'cuz it ain't ORIGINAL.

Don't confuse the ignition switch with the starter switch.

Yer description of a toggle switch providing sparkie power is the ignition switch circuit. Normally provided by the OEM key operated ignition switch.

Yer description of an aftermarket "push-button" ignition switch implies that the BIG tranny push-button interlocked safety thumb STARTER switch has been by-passed. NOT GOOD.

As for yer ampmeter. ALL ELECTRICAL STUFF needs a goes-into annna cumms-outta wire. Yer OEM dashboard ampmeter is kinda different iff'n its a "loop" ampmeter. Yer battery charging wire goes thru the loop like thread and needle. And iff'n it don't indicate "charge" (+) when you know its supposed to be charging you went thru the loop backwards. It don't hurt the ampmeter to operate backwards, afterall its a center = zero meter.

Now then, iff'n yer ampmeter is a 2-terminal replacement ampmeter, itt'll require both the goes-into and cumms-outta wires. Again, iff'n it don't indicate "charge" (+) when you know its supposed to be charging, just swapp the goes-into with the cumms-outta wire terminals. And again, yer ampmeter don't care 6 or 12volts, afterall its an ampmeter, NOT a voltmeter..... ....respectfully, Dell, the flunking mindreader

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ryanNva

08-30-2005 10:09:28




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2005 08:57:18  
Dell,
not trying to make this more difficult than it is. I know this is an aftermarket setup. They guys down at stevenson Ford here in chesapeake did the wiring so i"m gonna assume it is done correctly. The Toggle switch - on/off - is to cut the power to the coil, with out power to the coil, tractor won"t run as there is no spark to plugs. the push button switch - i.e. ignition switch - is to get power to the starter. Tractor will turn over but without the toggle switch in the on position it will not start.

its kinda like a safety seat switch on riding mowers. If you dont have that button push down, tractor won"t start. Some cares are the same way. Honda S2000 has an ignition switch with a key and then a push button starter switch. Key switch keeps electronics running, push button engages starter motor only.

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Dell (WA)

08-30-2005 12:06:27




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 Re: More Electrical problems in reply to ryanNva, 08-30-2005 10:09:28  
Ryan..... ....IGNITION SWITCH is for SPARKIES; OK? PUSH-BUTTON SWITCH is for STARTER and is logically called the starter switch. Thems the "OFFICIAL NAMES" per yer Ford Owners Manual..... ...Dell



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