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8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck?

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Ron Mac in West

11-16-2005 16:09:07




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Recently I picked up a 1949/50 8N that had been parked outside (wet east Texas) for at least five years. During trailer loading, even though I could get the transmission in what seemed to be neutral, the only way I could winch the tractor forward onto my trailer was to block the clutch pedal down. Today I got the old girl started and it runs excellent but I could only shift between what appears to be 2nd and reverse. With the engine running, when I slightly release the clutch in 2nd or reverse, I could feel the tractor strain toward the appropriate direction. However, it will not move and, if clutch is released too much, will bog down and die. I know the brakes are not frozen, but this is what it feels like. Also the shifter will not shift into 1st or 3rd. I removed the transmission cover (taking care to not lose the detent spring and ball) and found that, although I can easily move the upper (outer) shift plate, I cannot move the lower shift plate. The shifter rail (1st/3rd?) also seems to be stuck. The owner assured me that the tractor was working when it was parked five years ago. Anyone had this experience before with an 8N? Help.

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Jim West TN

11-17-2005 06:10:01




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
Ron Mac
When you had to depress the clutch pedal to winch the tractor on, it was because it was stuck in either 1st or 3rd gear. The bottom part of the gear shifter has come out of the big detent that is approximately in the middle of the 1st and 3rd shifter rail making, that is why you can not shift 1st or 3rd with the gear shift. When you shift into either 2nd or reverse you are then putting it into two gears at once and the tractor bogs down. If you take it out of 2nd or reverse the tractor is going to take off in either 1st or 2nd so be sure you are starting the tractor while you are sitting on it. When you have transmission cover off the big detent on the 1st and 3rd shifter rail should be approximately is the center of fore and aft travel when it is out of gear. If the detent is all the way back you are stuck in 1st, detent all the way forward you are stuck in 3rd. You just need to pry or tap the rail so the detent goes to the center. Its not uncommon for 1st or 3rd to get stuck. Some times happens when someone is just shifting gears on tractor when it is not running. The detent spring and ball is at the rear end of the 1st and 3rd shifter rail.
Jim

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Ron Mac in West Texas

11-29-2005 10:03:21




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Jim West TN, 11-17-2005 06:10:01  
I was able to finally get the transmission unstuck, somewhat. The primary sticking appeared to be on the gear on the countershaft operated by the lower shifter rail. When it popped loose, I was able to drive the tractor forward out of my shop but found that I still could not shift into 1st and 3rd and the neutral shifter position was in a forward gear. Also when I tried to shift into another gear, it hung up just like before. After once more getting the same gear loose, I was able to get the transmission into a forward gear and drive the tractor back into the shop. It went into the shop without a hitch but after I stopped and tried shifting again into reverse or a forward gear, the tractor first lurches in the appropriate direction but quickly stops as it feels like it is hanging up again. Although the shifter will seem to shift while sitting still, the gears feel loose as a goose. I'm thinking a rebuild or a new tranny may be in order. For the benefit of others here, one thing that seemed to help to first get the gears unhung, was to remove the starter and use a flat-ended crowbar on the ring gear to reverse rotate the engine. Ron

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Ron Mac in West Texas

11-18-2005 06:36:47




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Jim West TN, 11-17-2005 06:10:01  
Hi Jim. I've taken the transmission cover off to see what I could see but, except for not being able to move the lower flat shifter rail, nothing looks broken or bent. I also cannot move any of the gears on the main shaft. When I jack up the rear wheels, the wheels will rotate freely (in opposite directions) but nothing in the transmission (with oil still in it) seems to move. This morning I drained the transmission and gear case and will take another look with the rear end jacked up and see if I can see more. This thing has me baffled. Ron

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Ron Mac in West Texas

11-16-2005 19:16:09




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
To all:

Thanks for all the info. Tomorrow I will try all suggestions thus far and let you know what happens. The tractor was last owned by an eighty-three year old woman who probably has plenty of great grandchildren who for the past few years have spent countless hours in the seat of the little tractor doing "imaginary farming." There"s no telling where they have managed to place the gears. Thanks again and I will be in touch. Ron

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ZANE

11-16-2005 17:38:02




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
Probably stuck in two gears and has the transmission bound up.

Jack up one rear wheel to releave any binding that the rear axle may be putting on the transmisson. Block down the clutch for the same reason. Figure out which gear needs to be shifted which way and then pry it in the direction it needs to go.

Zane



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Dell (WA)

11-16-2005 17:04:18




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
Mack..... ....ya gotts yer tranny stuck in 2-gears atta time. This will LOCK-UP yer tranny and seem like yer brakes are locked-up. (most 8N rear brakes are un-locable due to tranny oil out the axle trumpet mouth) You can gittchur engine started with the clutchpedal pushed down as long as yer tranny shifter is in neutral (even iff'n yer gearbox ain't) I can't tell you which 2-gears are locked up, but you should beable to move individual gears on the sliding mainshaft. The one you can't is yer problem. You need to release the boundgears by prying and rocking yer rearaxle to relieve pressure on the gears as you priz.

Its isn't unusual for someone playing "tractor-driver" to shift the tranny shifter into a "locked" condition. There may be some wear on the shifter plates, but thats for you to visually inspect..... ....HTH, Dell

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Rick H. Ga.

11-16-2005 16:49:50




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
Hi Ron,

Congratulations on your 8N, which appears to be stuck between two gears causing your transmission to bind. If your clutch was stuck it would not disengauge when depressed.

You might try taking a big screwdriver or a other prybar type tool and see if you can manipulate the gear shift rails into neutral.

The two flat-bar shifter rails should be verticle and the top, round shaft rail notch should be aligned with two rectangular rail slots for the neutral position.

The bottom shifter rail is reverse, the upper rail is second and fourth and the top round shaft rail is first and third. HTH. Rick

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old

11-16-2005 16:43:53




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 Re: 8N stuck in gear or clutch stuck? in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 11-16-2005 16:09:07  
This is only a guess but here goes. You may have a bearing or bearings that have rusted up and are causeing that problem. You could also have water in the tranny and rear end which would cause the rust. But as I said thats a guess, even the throw out bearing may be rusted up



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