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8N Steering gear box water question

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Paul in MN

12-17-2005 16:47:20




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I am working on an 8n that was fully submerged in a creek for a couple of days. It is a late model 8N with the newest style steering gear box. The actual creek incident happened about 2 summers ago. And I drained the tranny, engine oil, etc and got it running reliabily.

Now it is about Zero degrees and I find that I can not turn the steering wheel, and have not forced it. Last night it sounded like cracking ice when I went to steer it to move it in my unheated shop.

I think there is no drain plug in that box, and I'm sure that the oil I added floated on top of the water. I put a heat lamp on it overnight and it hasn't thawed yet, but it will one way or another. Now the $64,000 question: How do I get the water out of there? This model has the 2 bolt side plates with the adjustment screw and lock nut in the center. Can I gain access to the bottom of the box to suction out the water by removing the side plate on the left side of the gear box? At one point I removed the bottom bolt from that plate, hoping that I could drain it, but I recall those bolts to have blind holes so no oil can seep out.

Any good answer will be truely appreciated.

Thanks

Paul in MN

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dan hill

12-18-2005 04:20:36




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to Paul in MN, 12-17-2005 16:47:20  
Best to pull the right side cover.There is a plug in the bottom of the box that may have been forced out by ice.If the top bearing is badly worn rain water can get into these steering boxes.Oil will leak out because it floats on the water.If you can see a space between the wheel collar and the column tube water will run in to the box when it rains.A new bearing wont fix because the shaft bearing surface wears and lets the shaft moves upward.A fix for this is a piece of radiator hose clamped to the flange on the steering wheel with a gear clamp.The hose acts as a skirt, keeps rain out.The 8n used 2 types of steering boxes.I have worked on the late type.This is not any easy job,best to take it out of the tractor.The top bearing and gaskets cost 30.00 from a CNH dealer.A catalog outfit wanted 60.00 for the same parts.There are 4 lip type seals on the sector shafts, 8.00 each.There is nothing to keep water from getting in to the box via the steering column tube.Make sure there is no gap between the wheel and the column tube.Punch mark the steering arm locations on the sector shafts before removing arms.I leave the arms on the tractor to avoid spoiling tie rod ends.

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souNdguy

12-18-2005 14:56:43




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to dan hill, 12-18-2005 04:20:36  
Is there no master spline on the sector gear arms? I seem to remember there being one??

Soundguy



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souNdguy

12-17-2005 20:57:57




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to Paul in MN, 12-17-2005 16:47:20  
You coul;d pull the steering wheel, dash and metal, and then pull the top of the box, and suction it out, then add kero and dry gas, and suction again, and replace and go.. or if you want to pull the box, you can knock the bottom plug out.

Might be a good idea if it had water in it for that long... no telling how good the bottom race is.. or the top and bottom thrust bearings..

Soundguy



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RustyAL

12-17-2005 18:38:56




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to Paul in MN, 12-17-2005 16:47:20  
Wow it must be cold up there. Did you try anti freeze. No Really. Taking the steering box apart and cleaning all the parts is not a bad job.



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Paul in MN

12-17-2005 19:56:33




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to RustyAL, 12-17-2005 18:38:56  
Yup, hic, I dun triid de annifriz. It maad me iis roll roond in, hic, dem circuls. Dang neer freezd lay'in dat coolddd sno. Yup, ddddat is wiickud stuff, evun furr suuch a llittle bottl.


Yup, it is cold up here, expected about -5 tonight. The TV weather guy says low 20's for a high tomorrow, and that is a lot better for working in a shop w/o heat. Maybe that is what I should do is put heat in the shop and forget this tractor until I've got some heat. This particular 8N belongs to a neighbor, and I'm not about to freeze the important parts while working on his machine. I agree that I had come to the conclusion that I'd probably have to take the gear box off, disassemble, and do the job right. Thanks for the response.

Paul in MN

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Hobo,NC

12-17-2005 17:47:41




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to Paul in MN, 12-17-2005 16:47:20  
The gear does need to come off and cleaned out. I guess you are trying to buy time so I would remove the steering wheel and upper bearing and pump 90 or 140 wt in it till no water came out the top. 90 wt gear oil izz heaver than water so the water shoud be float’in on top of it. I just rebuilt a box that had water in it and that’s what I found, water wuz float’in on top of the oil and did not hurt the lower bearing . Problem you may have izz the water has mixed with the grease then only solution izz a rebuild. I do have a rebuilt box fer sale exchange $250.00

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hvw

12-17-2005 16:55:53




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to Paul in MN, 12-17-2005 16:47:20  
I'd make sure the spindles aren't rusted shut before I tackled the steering housing. Jack the front of the tractor up, disconnect the tie rods and see if you can turn the wheels by hand. They should move very easily. If they move easily you can work back to the steering housing.

I had the same sort of problem. Didn't realize it was the spindles until I disconnected the tie rods. When I tried to move one of the wheels it wouldn't budge. I could force it to steer with the steering wheel because of the increased leverage. If it's the spindles you can likely remove them and clean everything up.

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Paul in MN

12-17-2005 17:08:15




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 Re: 8N Steering gear box water question in reply to hvw, 12-17-2005 16:55:53  
hvw

Good thought, I hadn't considered the spindles, but I steered the tractor easily into the shop just a few days ago. And when I tried to rotate the steering wheel yesterday, I heard a slight sound like cracking soft ice. With the zero temps, it became rock hard. I hope that the case does not split. I should have sensed this problem sooner! The heat lamp will stay on until I know for sure that I have no water in the gear box. If it is the spindles problem, they won't be harmed by not paying attention to them...ice won't hurt them.

Thanks for the reply!

Paul in MN

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