Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

Why would someone bypass the ignition resistor?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Scott Oberley

12-27-2005 14:46:51




Report to Moderator

I have recently purchased an 8N tractor 6 volt front mount distributor...between 1949 and 1950 I think. I was doing some wiring the other day and I noticed that the person before me had bypassed the ignition resistor. they have both leads on 1 terminal. Why would someone do that? Does it indicate a problem elswhere and they are trying to compensate? Should I leave it like that? Will it hurt it if i do? I seem to be getting nice blue sparks and it runs great, but I would rather do the right thing.

Also I wired up the Ammeter and it seems to indicate a negative charge when I turn on the ignition and the headlights, But does not seem to post much of a positive charge even at full throttle. The battery was almost fully charged so I have a suspicion that that may have something to do with it.

Any help and or wiring tips are appreciated. I've already learned so much from this site.
Thanks,
Scott

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
cdmn

12-28-2005 15:05:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Why would someone bypass the ignition resistor in reply to Scott Oberley, 12-27-2005 14:46:51  
Put the wires back where they belong and see if it still works okay. If so, leave it. In some of the later model tractors, they've put in 12 Volt coils with internal resistors, so it doesn't make sense to keep the ballast resistor in the circuit, but you might as well leave it there so you know where to find it. [for a while they still used 6 volt coils, even with a 12 volt system.]
As for charging, some old generators may have had an adjustable 3rd brush which you set for just enough charge. The cut-out prevents discharging when you stop. If you have a voltage regulator, then ignore the above.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

12-27-2005 16:28:07




Report to Moderator
 because they don't understand in reply to Scott Oberley, 12-27-2005 14:46:51  
Scott..... ..the "infamous ballast resistor" is Ford "hi-tech" scheme to compensenate for 1939 6-volt battery inadequacy's. Now we have "die-hards".

Heres the deal; Ford designed their 6-volt squarecan frontmount ignition coil to run on; would you believe 3-volts? Thats right, 3-volts!!! isn't that amazing? And Ford used a temperature sensitive varible resistor called a "ballast resistor" to provide 3-volts to run the coil. It changes its resistance depending upon its internal temperature. When COLD, it has less resistance and so you gitt MORE VOLTS to run the ignition coil ...but... too many volts for too LONG a time will melt yer ignition coils insulative tarrs and short-out some coil windings and make LESS SPARKIES.

So innnna'bout 2-minutes, the internal temperature of the "infamous ballast resistor" heats up and INCREASES the resistance and reduces the volts to the coil and now you have long-life coil that doesn't overheat and melt the insulative tarrs causing weak sparkies.

BUT.....There are too many electrically challenged shadetree mechanics that figger this way: my tractor is hard to start ...because... it has weak sparkies ...therefore... I need hottter sparkies. That dumb "infamous ballast resistor" is cuttin' down my sparkies; just when I need MORE SPARKIES. So the ballast resistor gitts by-passed. Yeah, it works for about 2-hrs before the insulative tarr melts and the tractor quits running. ...but wait... The coil cools off overnite and solidifies the insulative tarrs and vola' hot sparkies innnna cold morning start. This will work for about 1-hr before the tarrs melts again.

Bottom line, remember the 6-volt MANTRA: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight". And use yer "infamous ballast resistor" for long points and coil life..... ....Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wyatt

12-29-2005 09:01:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: because they don't understand in reply to Dell (WA), 12-27-2005 16:28:07  
My 8N was upgraded to 8 volt, so the guy used a chrysler resistor instead of the original. I assume that I should use both to keep the coil OK??? As it stands now, I think that maybe I have a fried coil...it gives intermittent spark (if any) depending on it's 'mood', but it was running well when I first fired it up.

The 8N was bought in pieces and I just finished assembling it...it fied up a couple of times, but nowe there is spark issues. New cap,rotor, pints,condenser, plugs...will a bad coil behave like this???

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

12-29-2005 09:37:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: because they don't understand in reply to Wyatt, 12-29-2005 09:01:52  
Wyatt..... ...8-volts is NOT UPGRADE!!!

Think about it. Yer 8N's genny can only output about 7.4 volts, which is what it takes to charge a 6-volt battery. An 8-volt battery needs about 9.5-volts to charge-itt. Yer runnin' 'round on crippled 8-volt battery.

I don't care what they tell you at the farm-store, just 'cuz some tractors can charge 8-volt batterys, not all can. It depends upon the genny design and yer 3-terminal 8N genny can't charge an 8-volt battery. Period!!!

Intermittant sparkies is usually a cause of loose connections. It takes about 1-hr for a bad ignition coil to go bad. Since you claim you've been able to occasionally start yer engine, it ain't chur coil.

As for the Chrysler resistor vs yer "infamous ballast resistor", use eather one or the other NOT BOTH. Understand? The Chrysler is slightly higher resistance which would be appropriate for 8-volts. But as I said; yer 8N's genny can't fully charge an 8-volt battery.

Many times an 8-volt battery is used as a band-aide for a weak and worn low compression engine. Just as the popular conversion to 12-volts. It just spins the engine faster for higher dynamic compression and thus you think you've fixxed yer engine hard-too-start problem. FOOL!!!..... .respectfully, Dell

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wyatt

12-29-2005 13:00:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: because they don't understand in reply to Dell (WA), 12-29-2005 09:37:39  
Dell, Thanks for the prompt reply.

Yeah, I didn't think that the 8 volt would be an upgrade either...

At any rate, I've checked out the wiring and I don't see any apparent issues. With the plugs sitting out of the engine, I'll get good spark at all of the plugs, but very randomly...sometimes I will get the spark at the same plug twice in a row (with no spark at the others) but then the others may light up in no defined pattern. Then again, sometimes there is no sign of spark. What am I missing???

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Scott Oberley

12-27-2005 18:42:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: because they don't understand in reply to Dell (WA), 12-27-2005 16:28:07  
Does this cause permanent damage to the coil or if I install a new resistor will it be OK?I've been thinking about buying a whole new resistor and terminal anyhow....the current one is in pretty poor condition.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
OH Boy

12-27-2005 18:58:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: because they don't understand in reply to Scott Oberley, 12-27-2005 18:42:35  
Yeah it will permanently damage a coil if it is repeatedly overheated from too much voltage.

What happens is, the tar inside the coil is supposed to insulated the windings, but it will short out inside if it gets hot and the tar melts. When the coil cools down and the tar solidifies again, it may recover. Eventually, the coil will completely short out and will not work even when its cool.

If your coil is still sparking along and you havent had any trouble it's probably still ok.

I am not too sure if those resistors go bad or not or how to diagnose it. Dell will know.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
OH Boy

12-27-2005 17:47:57




Report to Moderator
 Hey Dell in reply to Dell (WA), 12-27-2005 16:28:07  
What would happen if a guy wired in a switch to bypass that resistor for better starting. Flip the switch for say 30 seconds or a minute at startup, then turn it off? Would it make the spark any hotter than we are already getting with a 'cold' resistor? Just curious.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DavidO

12-28-2005 02:48:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Dell in reply to OH Boy, 12-27-2005 17:47:57  
Not a bad idea, but NOT a new idea either. Essentially, the "ballast resistor" does electrically what you are talking about. It does it well enough that I seriously doubt that installing a "bypass switch" would make any noticeable difference. All cars of the '40s, '50s, '60s, and early '70s used some sort of scheme to use full battery voltage for cranking and then reduce the current through the coil by putting some resistance in series with the coil after starting the engine. Ford and GM used "resistance" wire. Chrysler used a resistor mounted on the firewall. I still have some NOS rolls of the wire in the garage along with some 4 pole 6V solenoids. The 4th pole on the solenoid makes the current limited connection to the coil from the battery when the key switches from the start to the run position. It has worked quit well for many decades on many millions of vehicles, so, it WAS a good idea.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
OH Boy

12-28-2005 05:19:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Dell in reply to DavidO, 12-28-2005 02:48:21  
Thats I guess what I am wondering, if installing something like this actually improve anything or does the ballast resistor already do it for us? When cold, does the ballast resistor have zero 'resistance'?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DavidO

12-28-2005 08:49:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Dell in reply to OH Boy, 12-28-2005 05:19:28  
Not absolute zero, but low enough that "zero" would not make a noticeable difference in the circuit when starting the tractor. It does the job for you. You should leave it alone. Look for a different problem and ask us some different questions. The "ballast resistor" is OK. Let's fix something that is broken.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

12-27-2005 22:18:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Dell in reply to OH Boy, 12-27-2005 17:47:57  
My Uncle had a momentary pushbutton wired accros the ballast resistor on his front-mount 8N.
You could push the button to bypass the resistor, hopefully for more spark while cranking.

It DID seem to help cold weather starting some. Later, I coverted it to 12 Volts, and removed the switch.

Of course, applying full buttery voltage to the coil while starting (as was common with many other machines with breaker point ignition) could be made automatic by the use of a small relay operated by the voltage to the starter.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy