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OT Newsprint rabbits?

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Popster

01-02-2006 20:21:37




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Is newsprint harmful to rabbits when used on bottom of cages? They are always licking their paws.

Thanks for any info.




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Popster

01-03-2006 19:58:40




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
Many thanks to all who replied. From Farmer Dawn's thorough information from A to Z to Jimmyjack cogent warning on the danger of news.

I'm going to tell my wife to only use Russian newsprint so these American rabbits can't be harmed (grin).
We have some Jersey Woolies, a dominant Dutch, a mini-Lionhead, and a mini Lop.

I going into the cage/apartment building business.

Again, many thanks to all.

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FarmerDawn

01-03-2006 13:31:05




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? (LONG) in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
Not that you need any additional thoughts (you got lots of great ideas from people who raise lots of rabbits), but here's my 2 cents worth as someone who's had rabbits and was around them in labs, taught anatomy for many years, etc. If you don't want to go to a wire floor cage right now, newsprint is actually safer than something like carpet. They will chew on whatever is down there, and many of the dyes in carpets are absolutely lethal. I've had rabbits die from eating it. Newsprint itself is considered safe enough that it's used by public health nurses to create clean spaces to treat people in poverty conditions. Your rabbits will get blackened paws, but as long as that doesn't bother you it's ok.

The last thing you might want to know is that although the wire cages are easier to clean, you have to feed more (and higher-
quality food) if you use them. Rabbits' digestive systems require them to run things through twice to get the nutrients out of it. They are like cows in that they have a beneficial bacterial colony living inside the gut that actually produces the digestive enzymes necessary to break down the cellulose in plants. The plants rabbits eat, therefore, actually feed the bacteria. Cows are the same way. Then, in both cases, the animal consumes the bacteria for its own nutrition. The rabbit or cow doesn't have enzymes that can break down cellulose (the primary component of plants), but the bacteria do. (We don't have the enzyme cellulase either, which is why lettuce, celery, etc are low-calorie foods to us; we can't digest them down. We also don't have internal bacterial colonies that can do it, though we have other colonies in our intestines that do other things to help out digestion.) Basically, cows and rabbits are bacteria-ranchers who harvest plant material to feed the bacteria, then digest the bacteria they raise.

In cows, there are separate stomachs used for various parts of the conveyor-belt. When a cow eats grass out of the pasture, it swallows that into a stomach where the bacterial colonies live. From time to time, the cow burps up a big wad of that bacterial colony-digested grass-soup and it goes back into the mouth where the cow chews it up and adds saliva. This wad of stuff is the cud. Then the cow swallows the cud into a different and more final stomach that processes the material on through the body.

In rabbits, unlike ruminants such as cows, the bacterial colony lives in an outpouch of the large intestine called the caecum. So to run everything through the system twice, it has to be pooped out first because the only place anything can go after being in the large intestine is outside the animal. Rabbits produce two different kinds of poop -- one kind is soft and dark green, the other smaller, hard, and black. The first kind isn't "done" yet, and the rabbit eats it. This is the pellet that is analogous to cud -- it is composed of bacteria, digested plant material, and so on. The rabbit eats that, digests the bacteria (which are mostly proteins for which the rabbit can produce digestive enzymes), and then poops out the real final-product waste, which is the black, hard pellet.

When you have a wire floor, the rabbit can only get hold of the soft pellets to run them through their systems the second time if they pretty much catch them as they come out -- which you see them trying to do. Also, those pellets tend to stick to the wire because they're softer, and the rabbits try to eat them off there. But most fall through the screen. This significantly reduces the amount of nutrients the rabbit can get out of their feed. As you can see, they are raising the bacteria but then not getting anything much for themselves out of it all. If you have lots of rabbits, it doesn't work well (for hygeinic and practical reasons) to use anything BUT wire for the cage floor, but then you have to feed more food and it has to be especially high in proteins that the bacteria would otherwise provide, which is to say the proteins digestible by a rabbit.

As with most things, you have to establish a trade-off between all the factors you're dealing with when you make a decision. But I thought since you already have cages with floors and newspapers, there might be a reason, and that you might want to know this other stuff. Hope that helps in some way. (Aren't you sorry you were the lucky one who finally asked a question about something I actually KNOW about? LOL) --Dawn

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murn-ga

01-03-2006 14:35:21




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? (LONG) in reply to FarmerDawn, 01-03-2006 13:31:05  
Dawn, as you would say..WOW. I thought that was great and I did not no this. I knew a cow chewed it's cod but didn't find out why. I quess that's why A cow can eat any hey but A horse has to have # 1. Happy New Year.



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FarmerDawn

01-03-2006 16:41:40




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? (LONG) in reply to murn-ga, 01-03-2006 14:35:21  
Yep, that's the reason horses have to eat better food than cows have to eat. (And thanks for the wow. (grin!)) Happy New Year to you, too!!!



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FarmerDawn

01-03-2006 13:55:41




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 read this version instead (I posted it off Firefox in reply to FarmerDawn, 01-03-2006 13:31:05  
Not that you need any additional thoughts (you got lots of great ideas from people who raise lots of rabbits), but here's my 2 cents worth as someone who's had rabbits and was around them in labs, taught anatomy for many years, etc. If you don't want to go to a wire floor cage right now, newsprint is actually safer than something like carpet. They will chew on whatever is down there, and many of the dyes in carpets are absolutely lethal. I've had rabbits die from eating it. Newsprint itself is considered safe enough that it's used by public health nurses to create clean spaces to treat people in poverty conditions. Your rabbits will get blackened paws, but as long as that doesn't bother you it's ok.

The last thing you might want to know is that although the wire cages are easier to clean, you have to feed more (and higher-quality food) if you use them. Rabbits' digestive systems require them to run things through twice to get the nutrients out of it. They are like cows in that they have a beneficial bacterial colony living inside the gut that actually produces the digestive enzymes necessary to break down the cellulose in plants. The plants rabbits eat, therefore, actually feed the bacteria. Cows are the same way. Then, in both cases, the animal consumes the bacteria for its own nutrition. The rabbit or cow doesn't have enzymes that can break down cellulose (the primary component of plants), but the bacteria do. (We don't have the enzyme cellulase either, which is why lettuce, celery, etc are low-calorie foods to us; we can't digest them down. We also don't have internal bacterial colonies that can do it, though we have other colonies in our intestines that do other things to help out digestion.) Basically, cows and rabbits are bacteria-ranchers who harvest plant material to feed the bacteria, then digest the bacteria they raise.

In cows, there are separate stomachs used for various parts of the conveyor-belt. When a cow eats grass out of the pasture, it swallows that into a stomach where the bacterial colonies live. From time to time, the cow burps up a big wad of that bacterial colony-digested grass-soup and it goes back into the mouth where the cow chews it up and adds saliva. This wad of stuff is the cud. Then the cow swallows the cud into a different and more final stomach that processes the material on through the body.

In rabbits, unlike ruminants such as cows, the bacterial colony lives in an outpouch of the large intestine called the caecum. So to run everything through the system twice, it has to be pooped out first because the only place anything can go after being in the large intestine is outside the animal. Rabbits produce two different kinds of poop -- one kind is soft and dark green, the other smaller, hard, and black. The first kind isn't "done" yet, and the rabbit eats it. This is the pellet that is analogous to cud -- it is composed of bacteria, digested plant material, and so on. The rabbit eats that, digests the bacteria (which are mostly proteins for which the rabbit can produce digestive enzymes),and then poops out the real final-product waste, which is the black, hard pellet.

When you have a wire floor, the rabbit can only get hold of the soft pellets to run them through their systems the second time if they pretty much catch them as they come out -- which you see them trying to do. Also, those pellets tend to stick to the wire because they're softer, and the rabbits try to eat them off there. But most fall through the screen. This significantly reduces the amount of nutrients the rabbit can get out of their feed. As you can see, they are raising the bacteria but then not getting anything much for themselves out of it all. If you have lots of rabbits, it doesn't work well (for hygeinic and practical reasons) to use anything BUT wire for the cage floor, but then you have to feed more food and it has to be especially high in proteins that the bacteria would otherwise provide, which is to say the proteins digestible by a rabbit.

As with most things, you have to establish a trade-off between all the factors you're dealing with when you make a decision. But I thought since you already have cages with floors and newspapers, there might be a reason, and that you might want to know this other stuff. Hope that helps in some way. (Aren't you sorry you were the lucky one who finally asked a question about something I actually KNOW about? LOL) --Dawn

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Russ SoCal

01-03-2006 09:22:40




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
Popster,
Nearly all, or by now all, newprint ink is made from soy products. Safe for rabbits but reading it makes people sick.
Russ



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6N's Short

01-03-2006 07:47:19




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
I want to take back the comment about Safeguard below. I looked at the sight and feel the cages are not of the quality that you can get elsewhere and most are a bit on the small side unless you are raising really small rabbits. 30x24x18 is the minimum we use for Dutch and prefer 36". I'll try to post a link to our supplier here. We keep 50-100 rabbits around at a time depending on time of year.

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6N's Short

01-03-2006 07:37:02




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
We raise Dutch and Flemish Giants here and we have and have had a lot of rabbits in a variety of circumstances (sometimes you run out of space while waiting on a sale). You need to go to the wire floor and drop tray. Put a box or a some type of small square disposable (or washable) material in for the rabbit to sit on when it wants a break from the wire. The Safeguard link will get you started but your best buy in cages will be at a local rabbit show. There are small local cage builders everywhere offering high quality product for a lot less. If you are anywhere near Indiana try Wolf Cage (Logan is the guys name). We get everything from him. One last note, if you have a really heavy rabbit you will need at least part of the floor to be wood slats. We have a special floor for Flemish that accomodates their weight. HTH.

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Dave H (NY)

01-03-2006 04:49:16




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
I also raise rabbits and recommend without exception that you use a cage with a wire floor and waste pan. Also rabbits should have an area where they can get off of the wire to rest their feet as they can develop sore hocks from being on the wire without a break. This can be the addition of a small piece of carpet or plywood, and they will chew it. Newspaper also increases the odor instead of helping to control it. Don't use cedar under any circumstances with your rabbit it will lead to repiratory problems and can be fatal.

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soundguy

01-03-2006 04:26:12




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
Millions of people read a newspaper thru cover to cover every day... I'm one of them... I'd guess that equates to alot of newsprint on our hands and skin.. I generally have to wash my hands after reading the paper due to this. So far i have yet to see a Health warning about newsprint in contact with skin... and we, as a race live up to 80 years or more.. that is alot of time for chemicals to build up, if they were... Given that the average rabbit is gonna live 10ys or less... I'd guess they would be fine... I agree with the advice ont he raised cage floor.. I do this.. makes claeaning soooo much easier..

Walmart has small animal cages with raised floors and removable plastic pans for about 14$.. good cages.. come with a feeder and waterer.. I have a flop eared in one right now..

Soundguy

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Jimmyjack

01-02-2006 21:14:15




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Popster , 01-02-2006 20:21:37  
I would think only if they can read. I used to raise rabbits, and its a whole lot easier if you have a double bottom or a screen that the raisins can drop through.



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ratface

01-03-2006 18:39:06




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 Re: OT Newsprint rabbits? in reply to Jimmyjack, 01-02-2006 21:14:15  
Newsprint is considered to be sterile. As an emergency responder I was taught to use newsprint for emergency child birth when a sterile envirenment is required. I don't see how it could hurt rabbits.



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