Fire Extinguisher in Shop

1. Gasoline fumes are heavy and love to "flow" across concrete floors towards Kerosun heaters.

2. Kerosun heater will ignite fumes that get to it. Fire immediately "runs" back across floor to source of fumes....metal drain pan. Surface of liquid gasoline burns with intense heat and black smoke going mostly straight up.

3. Intense black smoke goes up to ceiling immediately blocking light from the electric lights. Person in shop is immediately confused by darkness and probably disoriented and may not even know where the door is...can't see anything through the black smoke as it is going from the ceiling downward to head and shoulder level. Panic sets in, person can't breathe, and will be lucky to live.

4. Fortunately, I was working just outside of the closed garage when I heard the WHOOSH and screaming. I opened the people door, was hit by an intense cloud of hot black smoke, but was able to hold breath and reach up for the electric opener button just inside the door. Being plastic, it had begun to melt from the heat, but made electrical contact and the opener began to lift the overhead door. Son was on floor, tractor was on fire, gas in drain pan was boiling and burning intensely. Automatic fire alarm was screaming and automatically calling Fire Dept. I pulled son out, fortunately no clothes on fire, and he began to move about in a very dazed manner, but got up on his feet.

5. Now to try to save the place from total destruction...and I knew that the fire dept would strongly recommend against what I did, but I felt that it was my place, and my life, and I would take the risk to see if I could save it without being too stupid.

6. I had a 5 lb dry chem extinguisher hanging by the side of the outside door, about 3 1/2 feet off the floor. Easy to find while the smoke was billowing out of the open o'head door, and I was in good air. I grabbed it, pulled the pin and began to shoot it at the drain pan, while working my way around the fire. Fire in pan extinguished, now aimed at burning part of tractor and put it out, but now pan had reignited. Still had some left in extinguisher, but was getting awful light in weight. Put out fire in pan, extinguisher now empty. Instantly located 2nd extinguisher on wall just next to inside door to house. Pulled pin and made ready to use. Gas still draining from tractor into pan. Tires very hot and might ignite. Son now able to help. We both rolled tractor outside where it flamed up again. Grabbed extinguisher and subdued the flames on tractor. Nothing burning inside of shop/garage. Now the fire chief arrived to see if he should call for the engines...I couldn't believe it... he had no fire fighting equipment with him, just his personal car. He decided that we really did have a fire, so there would be no fine for a false alarm, and he could call off the alarm for the volunteers going to the station to get the trucks, as we already had the fire out. Of course he gave me quite a lecture on fighting my own fires.

7. Lessons learned about extinguishers:
a) 5 lb size is MINIMUM.
b) One is not enough. Shop now has 3.
c) Hang by door, no higher than door handle high.
d) When the extinguisher is empty, get the hell out of there, the fire may reignite and you'll be trapped.

8. Lessons learned about fire dept:
a) You don't have time to call them, especially if trying to save someone's life. My automatic system did the calling faster than I could have.
b) They'll never get there fast enough to save the place, but may be able to save a nearby building.

9. Lessons learned about shop:
a) Do NOT drain gas inside of shop. (I had just given son that lecture, but he was of the age where he was smarter than the old man).
b) Do not have a source of ignition close to the floor, like Kerosun heater sitting on floor.
c) All items on shelves in plastic containers began to melt. Plastic containers for flammables like paint thinner should be banned. Gallon jugs of paint thinner were very close to rupture, and would have made the fire impossible to fight if they had.
d) Firestop (5/8") sheetrock on ceiling and walls made the difference in holding the heat away from the structure so that it didn't burn. It is not fireproof, but will buy some time before the structure is involved.

Thank God there was no loss of life, and no injury. We had a mess to clean up, and a much wiser son who now asks the old man for advise instead of immediately ignoring it. We also saved the 8n and it is still running today. We have purchased 5 and 10 lb extinguishers and have mounted them by all outside doors of shop and barn.

Would I recommend that anyone else do what I did? No! But we must all make what we think is the best judgement at the instant in time that it is needed. Hopefully, it is a good choice.

Think about fire before it happens.
Paul in MN

jimnjen

I'm glad that I did something useful today! We too heat the house with wood, in a 5 zone hot water system with a Tarm boiler. It also provides our domestic H.W. We put it in Oct 1977 and have enjoyed the quiet comfort of wood heat ever since. Kind of a fiercely independent thing that warms my heart too.

Best Wishes!

Paul

Fortunately the design of the 8n's and many of the old tractors put the possibly leaky carb below the hot manifold, not the common case for similar vintage trucks and cars.

Paul in MN

But, with my 6 cylinder funk conversion, the carb sets above the manifolds.

Nice photo, and nice tractor too! Now I can begin to see your concern. I never realized the conversions had such a problem.

Thanks for sharing.

Paul

I'm glad to get the information, too, because it's real hard to get the straight scoop on things. I called the nearest "big town" fire chief (Alliance, NE) to get advice about heaters, and learned that they must be 18 inches of the floor (minimum) to avoid igniting fumes. But no one -- not him or the guy at the store where I got my little extinguisher -- thought I needed a larger extinguisher or more than one. My sense had been to go for a larger one, just because I have SEEN stuff re-ignite. Now I know that's really a good idea, so I'm going to get at least one more. There's a huge one on the wall near the door from the previous owners, but it's long out of date. (1990). I am planning to take it up to the fire department to see if it's the type that can be recharged. If not, it's outta' here and will be replaced.

Thank you for taking the time to write and post such important information!!!

I got to know a fire extinguisher guy, as I became one of his customers. He taught me a few things:
1) Dry chem extinguishers may lose their ability to do their job by just hanging on the wall. They all have pressure gauges. Read it to determine if it is charged. But unknown to most people, the dry chem (yellow powder) tends to "set" into a huge cake and will not blow out when needed. This caking can be eliminated by inverting the extinguisher about once a year and gently tapping it with a rubber hammer or wood mallet.
2) A good extinguisher can be serviced much cheaper than buying a new one. A complete service (about once per 10 years) includes removal of the caked powder, a hydrostatic pressure test to about 300 psi, replaced powder, pressurized with dry nitrogen, and tested for leakage from valve. Commercial users probably need recertification more frequently.

Don't throw out your big 1990's extinguisher, one of that size may cost over $100, but refill and recertification probably is about $25. Ask about it in the nearest big town.

Know what type of extinguisher you have. The dry chem type is most common, and very good for fuel, oil, grease fires, but less effective for paper as it tends to blow the burning paper about, possibly spreading the fire. When I was teaching in the high school science dept, we usually had Carbon Dioxide extinguishers. (They look the same, but a heaftier metal bottle). One student caught their long hair on fire, and was not successful in patting it out, so I sprayed his head with the CO2 with just a quick burst. Dang near froze the kid's face. But a dry chem type would have blown it into their eyes and nose for some serious health effects. (The other students thought I was a hero, 'cause the guy on fire was such a jerk, but I saved him anyway....kind of like a religous conversion LOL).

HTH
Paul in MN

Thanks very much for the additional information! I was hoping for the exact situation you describe, with that big old extinguisher. I'll definitely look around to find someone who can recharge it. Both that and my new little one are the ABC type.

I was thinking earlier (after the first post you made) that you've really reminded me to include "fire" in my personal notions of preparedness, in terms of "you're on your own." Yeah, we have neighbors (not very close), and a local VFD. But the county is about half the size of Connecticut with a population of only about 1400. (Yes, I typed that correctly.) One VFD serves that whole area.

I remember when I lived in TX, I wasn't even that far out from town (12 miles) and we had a much bigger support system. But still, when 4 drunk guys tried to break through my front fence (around the ranch property), throwing rocks and bottles at horses and dogs and yelling threats down to the house (because I had yelled at them to cut it out), it was up to me to show them my 20-gauge and then pump in the first shell and MEAN it. (And yes, I'm glad as hell they weren't armed. Shotgun doesn't have much range. But I had what I had, and there weren't a lot of options.) Anyway, my son called 911 the minute we saw the guys, and the sheriff's deputy showed up over an HOUR later. Then he tried to bawl me out for not "staying inside and letting us handle it." (Reminded me of the comment about the fine from the fire chief in his own car, sans equipment!) The thing is, "professional support" sounds good in theory, but sometimes it's just not really there. And . . . well, a lot can happen in an hour. Same goes with fire, and now I'm thinking straighter about it. Thanks!!!

Dawn

You shoot an APW at an electrical fire, or a fire that involves something like a junction box or service entry, and YOU are fried.

All extinguishers should be wall-mounted near an outside door, so you don't have to go in, past the fire, to get to them. That way you are fighting the fire with a safe escape route behind you.

Remember to aim the extinguisher at the BASE of the fire, not at the body of the flames. Our firehouse holds an open house every year where we set a pan of oil on fire and let people have at it with an extinguisher. Teaches them where to aim, and gets them used to the WHOOSH! as it lets loose. Very popular event!

Nothing wrong with fighting your own fire IF you do it without risking your neck and IF you have called the fire department BEFORE you get stuck in! Too late to call them when you realize you are fighting a losing battle.