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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Jubilee with live PTO- new to me

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9n1411

03-07-2006 17:42:17




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Bought Jub., yesterday with LIVe PTO, does anyone have info on Live PTO? SER.# on blk NAA13006. Thank you. Burt




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KCM

03-08-2006 06:44:09




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to 9n1411, 03-07-2006 17:42:17  
The live PTO was made by Sherman and is simply a hydraulic operated clutch (pack) between the transmission and rear differential, powered by a small hydraulic pump attached between the tachometer cable and the main hydraulic lift pump on the engine. It was a dealer or owner add-on accessory, and tractors did not come from the factory with them. The original straight coupler is replaced by the clutch pack. so instead of pressing the foot pedal to stop the tractor, you actuate the lever on the side which disconnects the transmission from the rear differential using the clutch pack. Not a true live PTO, as the PTO is still transmission driven and not engine driven, but basically a stepping stone between the two.

From what I've heard, no parts are available for these units.

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Mike S

03-07-2006 17:53:56




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to 9n1411, 03-07-2006 17:42:17  
Live PTO on a Jubilee was hydraulically run. Should be a lever that controls it. Very nice to have as the PTO will continue to spin even when you push in the clutch. Also is not controlled by the speed of the engine. I don't know how robust they are if you run a big bushhog or other PTO driven implement, but they are sure a plus on your tractor.



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souNdguy

03-08-2006 04:52:34




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Mike S, 03-07-2006 17:53:56  
I'd have to disagree with the 'not controlled by speed of the engine'.. as it is most deffinately engine speed related. only way to get around that would be to use a hyd motor as an independent pto. Also must disagree about the foot clutch. if you stomp on the foot clutch.. pto won't spin.. simply the way the tranny is built... other guys have it right.. let foot off clutch.. pto spins.. then hand clutch controlls axle.. etc..

Soundguy

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Mike S

03-08-2006 05:57:40




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to souNdguy, 03-08-2006 04:52:34  
Having never seen one in action, I was going by what I had read in one of my tractor books. since the Jubilee hydraulic pump runs all the time form the flywheel, why doesn't the PTO run all the time? I think I have a picture some where and will puzzle this out.



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John O (MI)

03-08-2006 10:30:45




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Mike S, 03-08-2006 05:57:40  
You may be confused by the hydraulic oil line running from the pump to the "live PTO" unit. This hydraulic fluid is used to compress or release the clutch between the transmission and the rear wheels, not to actually power the PTO via hydraulic motor or anything.

As the others have said, it is not a true live PTO like you would find on more recent tractors (660/860's and newer). With the Jubilee, you can't actually stop the tractor and shift gears while the PTO is spinning. It was probably just designed to allow the operator to stop the tractor to let the bailer or mower catch up before moving on down the field. It would be of little value functionally to most people, but it's a neat oddity for the enthusiast.

-John

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souNdguy

03-08-2006 06:07:00




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Mike S, 03-08-2006 05:57:40  
You are mixing up 2 seperate systems... pull out yer parts manual and look at it.

The hyd pump is engine mounted, thus, if the engine is turning.. there is hyd pressure.

now.. the pto is not hydraulically powered.. it is mechanically powered from the trannies countershaft.. That is.. on a single stage clutch machine, the tranny stops spinning when you hit the clutch.. as there is no physical contact with the engine. If you had a dual stage clutch or independent pto, clutching the foot clutch does not stop the countershaft from turning, thus letting power back to the pto gears.

Since this is a gear to gear relationship.. engine speed will be ratio locked to pto speed.

Even if you did find a tractor with a hyd run pto, via a pump and motor hookup, the pto rpm will still be tied to engine speed, as that pump would be a positive displacement device, and it's flow output would depend on engine rpms.. more rpms, more flow.. more flow, more pto rpms... etc.

No magic involved in this..

On some newer hydrostatic transmission tractors, you can have variable ground speed with a set pto rpm. They accomplish this by setting the engine rpm, and thus the locked ratio pto rpm, and then for movement, there is a variable flow tranny that changes the volume of oil handles in the transmission.. pressing the pedal gives you full speed.. barely touching it gives you a crawl.. even though the engine is running at the same rpm either way...

Soundguy

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9n1411

03-08-2006 17:57:02




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to souNdguy, 03-08-2006 06:07:00  
Thanks to everyone for your help. Burt.



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Scott PA

03-07-2006 18:07:11




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Mike S, 03-07-2006 17:53:56  
The Dearborn live pto will not continue to spin when the clutch is in, first you select what gear you want, engage the pto then leave the clutch pedal out, the pto will then turn, then you must use the hand lever by the pto shifter to start and stop the tractor wheel motion. Most do not drive anymore after the oil is hot from a worn out pump and some have the inside clutch pack removed and the standard drive shaft installed and operate as if it was not there.

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Kelly Jewell (KY)

03-07-2006 19:25:14




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Scott PA, 03-07-2006 18:07:11  
Scott, I thought I read somewhere that Eber and George Sherman did these Live PTO kits, anything to that? The last kit I had was worn at the brass collar that transferred the oil from the pump to the clutch pack.....Kelly.



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don b

03-09-2006 07:11:54




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 Re: Jubilee with live PTO- new to me in reply to Kelly Jewell (KY), 03-07-2006 19:25:14  
Kelly, I don't know about the hyd. operated kits,but Sherman did make the manual operated kit Derek has on his 52.Most parts are the same so I would say they were made by Sherman,at least in the early stages. don b



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