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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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attaching engine stand?

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FarmerDawn

03-27-2006 05:22:04




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What type bolts (size and hardness) do I ask for at the hardware store up in town today, to use to attach the engine to the stand?

Where do I put the little pegs (that are on the stand), into the engine (bell housing?), and where do the bolts go with relation to the pegs?

I KNEW I forgot something! Sheesh... And I can't find anything clear online or anything in a whole YT forum search. :-(

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ShowMeGuy

03-27-2006 15:04:27




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 Re: attaching engine stand? (PICx2) in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
Here was my weekend project up on the stand. Maybe it will help visualize it for ya.

third party image

third party image

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FarmerDawn

03-27-2006 15:45:45




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 PERFECT!!! in reply to ShowMeGuy, 03-27-2006 15:04:27  
These pictures are GREAT, ShowMeGuy!!!!! They are EXACTLY what I needed to see!!! NOW I understand how to attach it all together!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! --Dawn



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duck64759

03-27-2006 09:38:52




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
I had a 3 legged stand tip over once. Had swept the concrete floor clean (important because those little wheels bind up on just a little bit of stuff like floordry). Front wheel hit a small hole in floor & tipped over. I spent about a second trying to hold it, then figured it would be cheaper to replace a motor than a body part so I yanked my hands back & jumped back out of the way. Motor had a fanblade bolted on to it & sliced the back of my right hand on the way down. Got a few stitches outa that one, motor we had to replace exhaust when it hit the floor. Hand okay now. Just be carefull, iron doesn't bleed & can be replaced easily. People's body parts can't. By the way, there is no need to have the fan bolted on while on the stand. Sorry for the long post.

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Troy(IL)

03-27-2006 09:16:23




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
The first thing i did when i bought my first cheapo $30 engine stand, was throw the metric headed cheapo bolts in the garbage, and replace them with grade 8 hardware. And as far as bolting an engine to it, I have used Chevy cylinder head bolts that i had laying around



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FarmerDawn

03-27-2006 06:28:47




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
Hmm. There is something I'm not understanding here, because I am not sure why I would need spacers to make things work out ok. I have a feeling I'm going to need to take some pictures and do a little back-and-forthing as I get this. I'd better ask Bob (the mechanic here) if I can borrow his jack for TWO days instead of one! :-) (But at least now I know to ask him when I pick it up.) --Dawn

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Truck

03-27-2006 06:27:13




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 BOlt length in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
Dawn.. If your engine stand came with four solid chunks of steel that are to be used to bolt the engine to the stand, don't use any longer bolts than needed. Extra length will be a weaker attachment and possibly break under stress, so don't do it. I used to work in an engine swap shop, know all about engines falling off stands, etc.

Before you mount the engine on a stand, pull the clutch parts off. Pay attention to the clutch disc, one side has to go towards the flywheel or your clutch will be locked up up by the springs hitting the fly wheel bolts. THE pressure plate bolts are special bolts, save them separate. You may need to pry the PP off once all eth bolts are out. Just go gentle but expect a lot of weight to fall when it does come off. Flywheel is also VERRY HEAVY!!!! Get help the first time, and don't drop it on your toes. (I forgot , if you can mark the position of th eflywheel to the crank somehow it will be handy later, as it only goes on one way. I normally pinprick with a punch two matching dots on flywheel and crank center.)

THE flywheel is best removed with an air powered impact wrench as the bolts will be tight. But if yo have no air tools, you can fabricate some method of locking the flywheel from turning and use a breaker bar to loosen the bolts. If you can do this with the engine on the ground it is safer.

Take those metal pieces we were talking about, and see which end is to go to the engine. Normally one end is threaded for the bolts that slide in the slots on the stand. THE other end should have little tubes your bolts go thru. I guess areal cheap one may not have those tubes, in which case you may need to add the washers to space th adaptor away from any protruberances on the rear of the engine.

Most guys loosely assemble the arms to the block, then bolt the arms to the slots loosely. ONce you hae everything where all the bolts will work you will be fine. Make sure your bolts go into the block at least as many turns as the engine to bellhousing bolts did. You dont want only two or three threads, as you are asking those hopefully grade eight bolts to do a LOT.

Have everything nice and tight, then lift up the engine with the adapter bolted to it, slide the upright of the stand over the adapter,install the pin, and then set everything down to the floor.

Don't be less than vigilant until the engine is on the stand and the pin that locks it from rotating is in place. The first time you try to rotate the engine on the stand have help as well,as if it is off balance it could surprise you and hurt you if you are trying to hold it back from rotating. \
Be safe, and careful, and you will have no problems!
Truck

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FarmerDawn

03-27-2006 06:37:52




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 Re: BOlt length in reply to Truck, 03-27-2006 06:27:13  
This helps a LOT, Truck!! Thank you!

I'll go slow and a step at a time. I had been thinking of lowering the transmission jack with the engine on it to the floor (or almost) to take off the clutch and flywheel, and now I think that really is a good idea. (I had visions of dropping it.)

I can see this step is as important (if not more so) than any of the steps I've taken so far. I want to do it right. After all, at the speed I work Arthur's "heart" is liable to be on this stand for a loooong time. LOL

Dawn

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Dan

03-27-2006 06:15:39




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
Not that I am questioning TheOldHokie, but I would not trust grade 2 bolts to hold my engine up, plus take the stress if you have to bank or yank on it to get stuff off. I will say though, that I was impressed that the 4 grade 5 bolts I used held my NAA engine up. If you cannot find conduit to cut up, I used oversized nuts for the spacers.

Good luck,
Dan



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TheOldHokie

03-27-2006 07:36:00




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to Dan, 03-27-2006 06:15:39  
Grade 2 bolts are MINIMUM 60,000 PSI tensile strength. So a 3/8" bolt has a MINIMUM tensile strength of a bit over 3 tons. Times 4 looks like a bit over 12 tons. I'd be willing to stand under that 300# block without a hardhat ;-) Yeah I know there's a lever arm at work on the stand but you do the math - 3/8" Grade 2 is very acceptable safety margin even by OSHA overhead lifing specs. WRT using spacers - if they are on the BACK of the mounting arms(i.e between the bolt head and the engine mounting arms) they are virtually no risk whatsover. To all intents and purpose they are equivalent to shorter bolts if your spacers are nice and rigid. I've never seen a block fall of a stand because the bolts failed.

TOH

P.S. I'll bet the bolts for attaching the arms to the stand provided by the MFG are grade 2 if your stand is one of those economy $50 units.

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Dan

03-27-2006 07:52:59




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to TheOldHokie, 03-27-2006 07:36:00  
I hear what you are saying - however; grade 2 bolts are considered "standard" bolts. Most standard bolts you get at home improvement or hardware stores are the cheap imprted JUNK that I can break WEEEEELL under the 60,000 psi tensile strength that true grade 2 bolts are rated as. I really do not doubt a fastener company type grade 2 bolt would do the trick, but most do not go to specialty stores for a grade 2 bolt - see my point?

Why not play it safe with your block and your body - grade 5 or grade 8 bolts can be found at TSC, Home Depot, and decent hardware stores for a few pennies more than the cheap stuff you get that is "supposedly" rated at grade 2.

So - in theory you are right, but in reality I would not take the chance on something you will be beating and twisting on and could damage you or the block if the bolt failed. BTW - I replaced all the standard bolts on my Harbor Frieght stand with grade 8 bolts before attaching the engine to it, and used grade 5 to attach the engine to the stand because I could not find the right size in grade 8.

Just my $.02 worth,
Dan

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TheOldHokie

03-27-2006 08:28:12




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to Dan, 03-27-2006 07:52:59  
In "reality" standard hex bolts sold by Home Depot and Lowes are Grade 2 bolts - at least by the labeling on the bins. I was just in TSC this weekend buying some Grade 8 bolts for the loader frame on one of my tractors and their "standard" bolts are also labeled Grade 2. 60,000 psi is just about the minimum tensile strength for carbon steel of any kind. Even SAE Grade 1 bolts have that rating. IMHO a grade 8 bolt in this application is gross overkill but if it makes you feel safer by all means go for it.

TOH

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corvette8n

03-27-2006 06:13:11




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
You probably have a universal engine stand some of thoose are set up to work with the more popular Chevy V8, like Hokie said use spacers to make things come out ok. Be careful if you roll the thing around. I have the three legged type and it almost fell over, you should have seen me try to keep the thing upright, good thing I only had an empty block mounted on it.



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TheOldHokie

03-27-2006 05:55:46




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 Re: attaching engine stand? in reply to FarmerDawn, 03-27-2006 05:22:04  
Regular grade 2 bolts will suffice for this purpose. Thread size the same as the bolts that hold the motor to the transmission - length depends on the particulars of the engine stand. Get a big handfull of flat washers to use to "fine tune" the length as well. I use scraps of 1/2" EMT electrical conduit to make spacers as well. Any kind of pipe you have around will work as well. That way you can use overly long (4"-6") bolts. Not sure what dowel pins you are refering to.

HTH,

TOH

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