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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Locked up engine...other ideas?

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Alan R

03-31-2006 05:05:37




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Hi everyone, I've posted a few times over the past months concerning an otherwise nice '52 8N that suffered a blown head gasket about 2 years before I bought it. Had the previous owner replaced the gasket earlier it would have been a simple job. However, after 2 years, this engine is frozen tight. I have removed the head and pan and tried soaking with all manner of fluids from PB blaster to vinegar over a span of many weeks. Currently the vinegar is still sitting in the cylinders after about 2 weeks and shows no signs of eating through the crud and dripping out the bottom. Any other suggestions for getting the pistons out without removing the engine (which will be quite difficult where the tractor is currently sitting). I'm running out of ideas and patience, and don't even ask about money. There must be a way to get this done without a machine shop...or is there? All suggestions/advice/tips/anecdotes/prayers/condolences appreciated. Thanks.

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Joe(NYC)

03-31-2006 20:37:14




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
Perhaps as the last resort you can try the method I have used successfully on several outboard motors. I buy stuck outboard engines and take the head off(which you already did). Now take a round stock of wood, just a little smaller in diameter than the pistons, place on top of the piston and hit with a rubber mallet. You start by hitting those pistons that are in the middle of their stroke. Just one or two taps and go on to the next piston. eventually you strike all of them. Just keep doing this and keep using the penetrating fluids. Again only as a last resort. Make sure your starter motor is not engaged and stuck to the ring gear. Also be sure you are in neutral. Good luck.

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Alan R

04-01-2006 13:00:53




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 Progress! in reply to Joe(NYC), 03-31-2006 20:37:14  
Well I finished my other chores in time to allow a few hours of work on the 8N and after many rounds of soaking, hammering, etc., I finally got the number one piston to move a little. After that, I couldn't stop until I had them all moving. Didn't actually remove them yet since I'm out of time for today, but am ready to finish the removal tomorrow. The wood chip in one eye, and the ATF in the other eye helped finish me up for the day. Also spent a little too much time getting pieces of wood wedged between the piston and crank. Don't know if the ATF soak and burn did the trick, or just getting a bigger hammer, but thanks to everyone for the suggestions/encouragement. I'll let you know what I find when the pistons are out.

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dave guest

03-31-2006 20:12:59




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
Brake fluid or ATF with small rag in cyl. If you are lucky enough to have an inch or so to fill. Light up and watch carefully every 10 or 20 min. if you have time. Keep refilling, relighting and beating probably all day. Worked on Farmall A. Still running with same piston and rings 5yrs.Use long bar in flywheel watch them teethDG



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Alan R

04-01-2006 05:07:31




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to dave guest, 03-31-2006 20:12:59  
Even if this doesn't work, I like the idea of setting it on fire right now. Unfortunately, the head gasket failed between 3 & 4, and 4 is at the top of its' stroke. No matter, I'll work with what I have. I put ATF in all cylinders last night (couldn't find my turpentine to make a mix, but may do that today). My wife has other chores in mind today, so I'll proabably just let it soak and check it again tomorrow.

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Alan R

03-31-2006 10:46:25




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 Thanks everyone... in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
Wow! And I thought I was running out of options. Now I have several to choose from. Weather permitting, I'll try a few things this weekend and let you know if I have any luck. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.



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Tim...Ok

03-31-2006 13:46:35




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 Re: Thanks everyone... in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 10:46:25  
We freed up an old boat motor once that was stuck solid by soaking it with Coka-Cola in the cylinders..sounds silly,but it did work..



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corvette8n

03-31-2006 09:38:45




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
I had a Honda motorcycle that sat in a shed with no roof, top of carb was missing, cylindar full of water. I let it soak for 3 months with different types of oil mixtures no go, I finally bought a small Craftsman chisel and broke out the piston.
It looked like someone had arc welded the rings to to cylindar wall. I carefully chisled the rings off the wall and had it bored +60 over.



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FarmerDawn

03-31-2006 09:36:08




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
I can't offer suggestions, advice, or tips (being a fumbling novice), but I CAN and DO offer condolences and prayers, as well as a pep-rally of one:

YOU CAN DO IT! I KNOW YOU CAN!! :-)

And think how delighted you and your tractor will both be when you do!!!

Now here is a really DUMB question -- is there any way to tow it a little bit, to an area where you CAN take things apart more? If it sat long enough to get a piston that rusted stuck, I worry that the clutch is also rusted stuck -- in which case you may HAVE to split the tractor to get it going again. I'm probably wrong (I usually am!), but I just thought I'd mention the possibility of moving it and sort of "settling in" to the job a little differently.

Best wishes to you, no matter how you choose to go with it!!!!

Dawn

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old

03-31-2006 07:39:40




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
First get the vinagar out. Then replace that with a mix of tranny fluid and turpentine, 50/50. Let that sit a few days. If you hood and gas tank are off then after a couple days of sitting with the trannyfluid/turpentine mix, add about a table spoon of gas to each cylinder. Then use a stick or something like that so your back a few feet light up that mix. Let it burn till it goes out on its own. Then use a 12 volt batter and hit the starter just do quick hits on the starter button. I've popped 4 or 5 engine loose in the last 2 weeks doing that some of them popped loose with out the gas and lighting it up but two of them didn't. But there loose now other then when one of them popped loose #2 cylinder sleeve also came out of the block. But thats another story.

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dbwillia

03-31-2006 06:39:25




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
I read in an old car magazine, this fellow had a car with a frozen engine. An old mechanic told him to put one cup of dishwashing detergent in each cylinder and let set over night. If it didn't turn over the next day it would the second day. He said it worked great. Sounds like it would be worth a try.



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d.brown

03-31-2006 06:08:05




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
I read just the other day I believe on another forum that a guy uses turpentine to free stuck engines. Real turpintine not paint thinner. Some have resorted to setting diesel on fire in cylinder and letting the heat expand the cylinder and crack the rust. I haven't had to try any method yet.



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TIMW(PA)

03-31-2006 05:21:16




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
An old Farmer once told me to take and make a 50/50 mix of iodine like you buy at the farmstore for animals and your favorite pnetrating oil like wd-40 or whatever you can get in bulk. he said it worked great for freeing up tractor engines that have been sitting with water in them. Never tried it just something I heard and stored away for future reference. Worth a try???? your call



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Mike S

03-31-2006 05:15:16




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
I would take out the vinegar and replace it with diesel fuel or automatic trans fluid. Vinegar usually works on surface rust but not much else. Plus it is not really that much of a lubricant. What are you trying to do besides the vinegar? Are you rocking the tractor some with the rear tires in 2nd or 3rd gear to see if that will help break the pistons free? Big wrench on the front pulley? If the rust won't break free from all of that, then you will have to take the rods off the crank shaft and hammer them out. Cylinder walls may or may not be salvageable.

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Bruce (VA)

03-31-2006 05:13:51




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Alan R, 03-31-2006 05:05:37  
For what it's worth..... here is a real-life story. A buddy of mine found an A model Ford in a neighbors barn 30 years ago; the neighbor said it was running when it was put there in the late 50's. My buddy paid him the (cheap)asking price, got it home on a trailer & went to work on it. He filled the cylinders w/ diesel fuel. After he had the body off, etc (like a few weeks later) he pulled the head, took a 2x4 & a mallet, and beat on each piston. After a few whacks, it came loose. My point.....add oil, then force.....more oil, more force! It will break loose eventually.

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gahorN

03-31-2006 09:55:03




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 Re: Locked up engine...other ideas? in reply to Bruce (VA), 03-31-2006 05:13:51  
Get the vinegar out. (It's a mild 5% acid that might remove surface rust but actually it does that by "corrosive" action on the Ferrous Oxide ...so guess what elese it's doing over the last few weeks?) Soak the pistons a few days with your favorite penetrating oil, then wipe it back out. Get underneath the engine with a big hammer and a 2X2 piece of wood about 14-18" long, and (with the rod bolts/caps removed) using the wood against the wrist-pin/conn rod area of the piston, hammer that piston up and out of the cylinder. I've done this to all kinds of engines including several which had been salvaged after being submerged. I've even been able to save one engine without further machine work...only a good cleanup with a hone, new pistons/rings...and running fine!

(Although I've never done the following, one of my buddies claims success with a Ford 4-cylinder he salvaged after two years on the botton of a lake. (outdrive engine...similar to a Pinto engine). He drilled two holes in the piston, one on each side of the wrist pin. He then snaked a 1/4" steel cable down thru one hole, around the wrist pin and back up out the other hole. Tied the loose end to the cable with a clamp, and used an engine lift to "pull" the piston out. (I'd be careful about using that procedure however. You'd have to be careful to see that the big-end of the conn rod cleared the lower cylinder wall as it came up and out.)

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