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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Electrical problem

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New8NLover

04-11-2006 16:00:12




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OK,

I have went through my wiring for my 12 volt converted front mount distributor 8N and really can"t find anything wrong with it.

Here"s the problem. When I connect the ground wire to the steering gear box it sparks. If I try to connect it anyway the engine turns and she tries to start WITH THE KEY OUT OF THE IGNITION!

While I am glad that she is ready to run, I wish she would wait until I am in the seat! The wiring is the same as it was last year when I parked her.

Could it be the ignition switch gone sour? Could there be a problem in the alternator or the starter selonoid which I just replaced?

On the terminal block, the little post that is not part of the resistor is gone. I wirenutted all the wires that were supposed to go to that post. Also, the resistor is sort of unwound in one spot and the post where it connects to the terminal block is stripped out and so the resistor is sort of bent right there. Could that be the problem and if so, how would you fix it? I"m stumped and I have a tractor guru (my uncle) coming over tomorrow to help, but I would love to get her started before he comes over. Any suggestions?

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Strick8N

04-13-2006 09:20:14




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8NLover, 04-11-2006 16:00:12  
I had the same problem on my "52 8N. The TSC solenoid was shorted out. When I connected the positive battery cable to the solenoid it would turn the starter over (no key and not pushing the starter button). I bought a new solenoid and installed it. No more problems.

Brett



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New8Nlover

04-13-2006 11:42:59




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to Strick8N, 04-13-2006 09:20:14  
Yeah,

I think that might be the problem. It is getting juice whether or not the ground starter button on the tranny is pushed in or not. I went to the local autoparts store and got a new one since the old trusty TSC will not have anymore until Saturday...maybe. I'm gonna try it tonight and send that other peice of junk back. Hope I can get the old girl started tonight. She needs to run and cough a little to get the cold weather out of her system.

Thanks for the help.

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New8Nlover

04-11-2006 19:54:01




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8NLover, 04-11-2006 16:00:12  
OK.

I have tried removing the small wire on the back of the solonoid. It still sparks like all get out. Now I have a thought. I am new at this, but would the fact that it is a six volt solonoid (originally a positive ground)that has been converted to a 12 volt (negative ground)have anything to do with it? The solonoid has a sticker that says BAT to which I assume connects to teh positive post of the battery. Should I have it the other way since it is now a negative ground? Currently the small post is in the back between the solonoid and the motor.

So since it still sparks, I should assume that the starter button is OK. I disconnected the positive from the keyed ignition and it still sparked.

I am really puzzled. I may just rewire the whole darn thing from start to finish. Does anyone have a wire diagram that they can email me or point me to for a 12 volt front mount conversion. I have a two wire GM alternator.

Thanks for all your help!

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roger '40 9n

04-11-2006 16:19:59




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8NLover, 04-11-2006 16:00:12  
On a stock 8N the ignition switch has NOTHING to do with the starter turning over the engine. The stock 8n solenoid works by grounding the small post through the starter switch near yur gearshift.
Sounds like the wire from the solenoid to your starter button has shorted. Disconnect the small wire from your solenoid and try hooking up the battery. If no sparks and the engine does not try to turn over then you have a bad starter switch or wire. If the starter still trys to spin then you might have a bad solenoid.
Of course iffn you have a nonstandard solenoid or key switch all bets are off. That is if your starter button is not on the trans cover or the ignition switch is used to engage the starter motor.

Roger in Michigan

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RAT IN CAN,

04-11-2006 16:12:20




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8NLover, 04-11-2006 16:00:12  
You have a short some where that when you apply the ground it completes the circuit and it starts to turn over. Check your solenoid remove the little wire between the big cables and hook up your ground nothing should happen now hook up the little wire if it trys to go you have a short in that wire some where and you"ll have to find it. I hope this helps RAT



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New8Nlover

04-11-2006 16:15:22




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to RAT IN CAN,, 04-11-2006 16:12:20  
So, remove the wire that goes to the push button start...then connect the ground...and then connect the wire on the back of the solinoid?

I will try it thanks.



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old

04-11-2006 16:08:35




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8NLover, 04-11-2006 16:00:12  
You either have the wrong solinoid or you have it wired wrong. On all the N tractors you can turn the engine over with or with out the switch turned on. Just push the bottom and it will turn over even with the key in your pocket



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new8Nlover

04-11-2006 16:14:11




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to old, 04-11-2006 16:08:35  
So, You think my problem is in the solonoid? It is the right part according to the packaging from Tractor Supply. Maybe I'll put the old one back on there and see if that helps. Maybe the solinoid is bad from the manufacturer. Thanks.

So if I push the button it will start without the key? Or you said push the bottom...the bottome of what?

Thanks again.



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old

04-11-2006 17:08:05




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to new8Nlover, 04-11-2006 16:14:11  
Well no it will not start with the key off but the starter will turn the engine over with the key off. You also may have the soliod in back wards which could also cause your problem



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roger '40 9n

04-11-2006 16:30:00




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to new8Nlover, 04-11-2006 16:14:11  
They said to remove the tiny wire on the solenoid that goes to the starter switch.

They did not say that the tractor will start when you push the starter button. They said that the starter will turn over the engine. The ignition switch controls the sparkies. So the starter switch will make the engine turn over but it will not start unless the ignition switch is on.

Roger in Michigan



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New8Nlover

04-11-2006 19:55:39




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to roger '40 9n, 04-11-2006 16:30:00  
OK.

I have tried removing the small wire on the back of the solonoid. It still sparks like all get out. Now I have a thought. I am new at this, but would the fact that it is a six volt solonoid (originally a positive ground)that has been converted to a 12 volt (negative ground)have anything to do with it? The solonoid has a sticker that says BAT to which I assume connects to teh positive post of the battery. Should I have it the other way since it is now a negative ground? Currently the small post is in the back between the solonoid and the motor.

So since it still sparks, I should assume that the starter button is OK. I disconnected the positive from the keyed ignition and it still sparked.

I am really puzzled. I may just rewire the whole darn thing from start to finish. Does anyone have a wire diagram that they can email me or point me to for a 12 volt front mount conversion. I have a two wire GM alternator.

Thanks for all your help!

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DavidO

04-12-2006 04:05:25




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 Re: Electrical problem in reply to New8Nlover, 04-11-2006 19:55:39  
The answer to the first question is "NO".
The answer to the second question is "NO".
Response to "small post is in back...." is "That is correct." The reason it sparks when you hook up the battery is that something is drawing a good bit of current. That is not what should be happening. From the information that you provided, it sounds like you have a shorted wire or bad solonoid. Re-check your wiring carefully. If no problem is found, replace the solonoid.

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2N Paul - SK

04-12-2006 10:26:33




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 Wiring diagram here in reply to DavidO, 04-12-2006 04:05:25  
There used to be a website called www.nseries.com that had all kinds of great wiring diagrams.

These wiring diagrams were frequently referred to by Ners far more knowledgeable than I.

Unfortunately for the nseries.com folks, their website seems to have gone the way of the dodo.

Thanks to the Internet Wayback Machine, however, that great information lives on, and you can access it via the link below.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Paul

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New8Nlover

04-12-2006 12:15:42




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 Re: Wiring diagram here in reply to 2N Paul - SK, 04-12-2006 10:26:33  
Thanks for your help! This is what I used to have before the internet farted and blew that site away.


Many thanks.



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