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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Question about the valve guides

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old

04-17-2006 09:50:56




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On the valve guides on an 2N engine is there some sort of o-ring or other type of seal that should be in ar around them some how?? If so does any body have a picture of them?? I'm about to finish up doing this engine and want to make sure that there is or isn't seals on them.
Thanks
The book doesn't say either way

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TheOldHokie

04-17-2006 10:25:39




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to old, 04-17-2006 09:50:56  
I may be wrong but ISTR that the seals are not required on the exhaust valves - hence some kits only have 4 seals. The intakes need the seals to prevent vacuum leakage through the crankcase during the intake stroke. The exhaust side can do without. I put all eight in when I did my 9N.

TOH



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Bob

04-17-2006 21:24:42




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to TheOldHokie, 04-17-2006 10:25:39  
The entire intake system, from the carb butterfly or venturi, to the valves is ALWAYS "under vacuum" when the engine is running.

The area around each guide is "under vacuum" even when it's valve is not open, because another valve or two ARE open and "drawing" against the carburetor, and maintaining manifold vacuum, and the intake manifold, and all the ports in the block, up to the valves are "in communication".

So, there is a continuous suction, trying to draw stray crankcase oil past the valve guides and valve stems while the engine is running.

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TheOldHokie

04-18-2006 05:34:39




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to Bob, 04-17-2006 21:24:42  
Hmmm, I'm not sure I get that but you may well be correct. I'll have to look at an old block to help visualize the geometry - flatheads aren't my strong suit.

TOH



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Bob

04-18-2006 08:34:51




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to TheOldHokie, 04-18-2006 05:34:39  
Not only flatheads. Almost any 4-stroke engine will have vacuum acting on all the valve guides, all the time, trying to pull oil past the guides, into the port area.



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TheOldHokie

04-18-2006 11:16:11




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to Bob, 04-18-2006 08:34:51  
Ok - I'll bite. When and how is there a vacuum in an exhaust port? The exhaust ports are not interconnected with the intake ports except through the cylinders. Intake manifold vacuum simply cannot be seen by the exhaust ports or their respective valve guides if the intake valve seals are in place. They confine the vacuum to the intake port/cylinder and out of the crankcase. The exhaust valve itself confines that vacuum to the cylinder on the exhaust port side. Overhead valve engines have seals on exhaust valve stems/guides to prevent oil being pulled past the valve stems into the cylinder by gravity - not vacuum. That's clearly not an issue with a flathead.

TOH

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Bob

04-18-2006 21:17:59




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to TheOldHokie, 04-18-2006 11:16:11  
I didn't say the exhaust valve guides were exposed to a steady vacuum.

I was referring to the INTAKE guides. IMHO, the constant suction IS a factor in pulling oil past the valve stems (guides, also, in a Ford Flathead), in ANY engine, OHV OR flathead.



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TheOldHokie

04-19-2006 05:06:43




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to Bob, 04-18-2006 21:17:59  
Seems what we have here is a "failure to communicate" ;-) You are absolutely correct WRT the intake side - you can pull oil and lose manifold vacuum throught the guide/block/stem clearance, OHV or flathead. My original comment was explicitly addressed to the need for seals on the N exhaust valve guides. I personally put them on the exhausts on my 9N but I believe others have stated here that they are "optional" for the reasons we just discussed.

YMMV,

TOH

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Dan 2N

04-17-2006 10:15:32




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to old, 04-17-2006 09:50:56  
Hi old, There is an o-ring seal that is to be put on the intake valve guide, I don't have a picture of it to post but they are usually in the gasket set, if not go to a good parts store (NAPA) will have them, they are the same as what was in flathead Ford cars or trucks, if you feel uptoit, put them on all eight valves. The way that motor is made though it will not pull much if any oil through the guides on intake stroke.
Have a goodin, Dan 2N

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Ray Wilson

04-17-2006 10:02:45




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to old, 04-17-2006 09:50:56  
third party image

Mr Old,

I just replaced the valves on my 8N, Side mount. It had the one piece valve guides. When I took the old guides out, some of the seals were there, some weren't. I suppose they get chewed up over time. By the way, the kit had only 4 seals included, even though each guide has a groove for a seal. I obtained 4 more seals and installed them all. I think the important valves to seal are the exhaust valves. Here's a picture (a picture is worth a thousand words...). I hope all this applies to your 2N.

Ray

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FarmerDawn

04-17-2006 16:24:53




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to Ray Wilson, 04-17-2006 10:02:45  
Wow, Ray! That's a GREAT photograph! Thank you for posting it!!! --Dawn



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Tom N MS

04-17-2006 16:00:57




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 Re: Question about the valve guides in reply to Ray Wilson, 04-17-2006 10:02:45  
Actually it is the other way--The intake valves guides must have the seals. Mine had them on all eight so I put them back on all eight. Contrary to some discussions, mine were not burned up on the exhaust valve guides so I figured they sure couldn't hurt anything...



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