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Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts?

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Roland Jackson

04-19-2006 06:23:51




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I have a GB Instruments Circuit Alert Inductive Voltage Probe. The Model is GVD-504A

Anyway, I ran across something yesterday that I hadn"t seen before. I will explain.

I have an electrical outlet that I wanted to replace the plug. So I checked with my little GB checker..the light blinked and it chirped warning me that the plug was hot.

So I turned off the Circuit breaker and the tester still blinked and chirped. I went out to the service pole...and turned off the electricity to the entire shop. The tester still blinked and chirped. So, I got my volt meter to make sure the line was dead. And it was. What would cause the tester to show live electricity...when none was there?

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dave guest

04-20-2006 18:07:58




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Roland Jackson, 04-19-2006 06:23:51  
How would you like to live in Mich. I can park my camper next to my house un der high tension wires and get 200 volts AC from frame to ground. Edison says so what? LAWYER SAYS can't ever win. What do you do. Don't sleep too good anymore.



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Roland Jackson

04-19-2006 11:04:08




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 Thanks for the help..... in reply to Roland Jackson, 04-19-2006 06:23:51  
I have an over head electrical line...and the is where the signal is coming. I thought I was going crazy...thanks for the electrical lesson. All is fixed.

Roland



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Bob

04-19-2006 07:16:20




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Roland Jackson, 04-19-2006 06:23:51  
Those testers sense voltage by capacitive coupling to the wire you are checking. You disconnected the wire from it's power source, so it may pick up enough stray voltage if it passes near other wires, or there is some source of RF or other electrical interferance in the area, to trigger the tester.



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Dell (WA)

04-19-2006 11:16:39




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Bob, 04-19-2006 07:16:20  
Bob..... ..sorry, its MAGNETIC coupling that the tester Roland was asking about. ALL AC wires surround themselves with a magnetic field. I once knew a farmer that ran several insulated fence wires parallel to this big high voltage cross-country powerline and he gott enuff radiated power to light his barn with small lite.



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Bob

04-19-2006 21:21:24




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-19-2006 11:16:39  
Dell,

An "Amprobe" to measure AMPS is inductively coupled.

The little cheapy tool he is talking about to give a "go/no-go" test for Volts almost certainly operates by CAPACITANCE, as you just approach one side of the wire with it, not SURROUND the wire with it, as with an "Amprobe".



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Dell (WA)

04-19-2006 06:59:16




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Roland Jackson, 04-19-2006 06:23:51  
Roland..... ...sorry, I'm not familiar with the GB GVD-504A.

Howsomevers; sounds like the wall sockett is wired backwards. I have a very simple 3-prong plug-in (don't remember the name or number) that has 3-lites, and will lite-up according to the various combinations of possible connections. (or miss-connections, as the case may be)

The rule: BLK is HOT, WHT is COLD, GRN or bare is GND.

Don't forget, you may have the miss-wiring in yer circuit breaker box and not the wall-outlet..... ..Dell, not a household electrician

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TheOldHokie

04-19-2006 07:07:51




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Dell (WA), 04-19-2006 06:59:16  
Word of caution - White is NEUTRAL and can easily morph to HOT if there's an open connection in the return path to the NEUTRAL buss in the panel. Black and white are both current carrying conductors.

TOH



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souNdguy

04-19-2006 07:20:24




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to TheOldHokie, 04-19-2006 07:07:51  
I agree with the others. There might be a ground loop.. or.. voltage present from neutral to ground, due to bad grounding / insuficient grounding.. capacitive reactance.. etc..

lots of issues it could be..

Soundguy



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Ole Country Boy

04-19-2006 11:11:41




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to souNdguy, 04-19-2006 07:20:24  
Ok, good answers. If you don't trust your meter,, get another one.

I wired a house down in Hoston area in a new subdivision some many years ago. Passed inspection and people moved in. Got a service call that the owners were getting a slight elecrical shock when they showerd!!! That is NOT good. Went out there, tested everything! With my meter leades in the water flow and grounded to drain plumbing, had 86 volts!! Everything else read correct, checked inside the outside breaker box. No problems what so ever. We went out side and sat on the tail gate of the truck and thought about it for some long time. I was tossing my long screwdriver into the ground just out of boredom. Hooked my volt meter to the screw driver and the tail gate of the truck, just for the heck of it.. Got a volatage reading of apx 85V !!! got another meter and checked it with that!!! Freaked me out!! Called boss, he called power company, they came and I showed them, they tired it and confirmed the readings.

What the problem was, there was a set of steel high voltage power lines right there where we were parked, in the back yard of the house. All perfectly leagal of course. The inheritatied current wave from the high voltage power lines were generating a force field if you will. The metal plumbing and metal air ducts in the house were picking that "wave" and since the piping was metal and the house wiring was all grounded to earth, there was current from the water pipes to the drain lines.

To prove the issue, they killed that huge power line and the voltage went away. They had to come ground every metal tower with a huge ground cable..Problem solved.

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souNdguy

04-19-2006 11:24:48




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Ole Country Boy, 04-19-2006 11:11:41  
That's called inductive coupling.. or just plain induction... That's the principle that a transformer works on ( including the same basic theory about your ignition coils.. ) Anyway.. the overhead high tension lines were the primary.. Any other metal pipes or wires in the area of the electromagnetic field were the secondary.

Lots of ground straps would have helped that situation. When i was a kid, me and a friend would get a couple flourescent light tubes and go stand out under the high tension lines running down a local highway.. at night the emw made the tubes flouresce.. looke dlike you had a light sabre... etc. same principle..

Soundguy

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Ole Country Boy

04-19-2006 20:47:01




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to souNdguy, 04-19-2006 11:24:48  
yep, induction,, at one time I had a linear on my CB car radio,, could pull up under a closed gas station and key down and light up all the tubes!!! Could pull into Jack In the box and broadcast over the intercom!!! Hold a floursence tube up near it and light it up big time!! LOL LOL,,, SWR showed 100 Watts out of that 102 inch steel whip!! ;-)



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DavidO

04-20-2006 04:27:41




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to Ole Country Boy, 04-19-2006 20:47:01  
WOW, are you sure about that? I can understand your ( illegal) 100W power through your linear amp, but 100W SWR?

David
(1st Class FCC Licensed 2 Way radio Tech).



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Ole Country Boy

04-20-2006 06:33:47




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to DavidO, 04-20-2006 04:27:41  
Yea, the SWR meter had power out readings as well. Was pretty fancy meter as I remember, not the $10 Radio Shack one..

And Sound Guy,, nope, not Ham, thought about it several times, just never did license out. understand there are newer license but have not looked into it. Just what I need, another hobby to throw money at. :-) Used to love to shoot the skip on CB, had a legal CD rig at home and lived just the right distance from Galveston Bay and hit a wave skip off that body of water and talk to Flordia like across the block.. Course all the stars and the moon had to aling just right with a front approaching from the west of SW :-) ... Was durn fun back then. Now, we got high speed interent,, just the natural progression of things.

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souNdguy

04-20-2006 04:46:29




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 Re: Help Dell...Is my Circuit Tester Nuts? in reply to DavidO, 04-20-2006 04:27:41  
musta been pretty cruel to the output devices.

Wouldn't happen to also be a ham would you?

73's

De ke4rrd ( soundguy )



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