Semi OT: Dearborn FEL hydraulic control valve

I'm considering going ahead and grabbing a 2-way valve for it because they are common and about the same cost. What exactly should I look for in a control valve? Single spool w/ an open center? Any other options that I need/don't need in a valve? Anyone have any recommendations for a cheap replacement that will get the job done?

Thanks in advance!

Justin
in Indiana

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Also note there's a hose that goes forward and curls back towards the rear. That's the waste oil port from the valve. When one of the DA spools is operated the oil displaced from the actuated cylinder is returned to the sump via that line - not the PB port. It goes directly into the transmission sump through the filler. That's shown below.

Finally note the QC on the top of the top of the 3pt cylinder. When it's in use the return from the attached valve is connected to the return tee by removing the plug and connecting the return line. Ran out of QC's ;-) I've also installed two JIC test port fittings in those circuits to facilitate attachment of a pressure gauge when troubleshooting malfunctions or adjusting relief pressures.

And one last word of caution. When making connections to hydraulic ports be very careful to determine the type of thread the port uses.

Many valve ports are NOT NPT threads. They are often SAE straight pipe threads and require an SAE type adapter. If the valve or equipment is of "furrin" origin it may be one of the international "standards". For example that hydraulic outlet on the Kubota 3pt is BSPP (British Standard Parallel Pipe). You do recall the Brit's colonized much of Asia ;-) BSPP is not metric - its ENGLISH. That particular port thread is 3/8-19 as opposed to the SAE port standard of 3/8-18. GAWD!!! I work for the US govt in the international standards community and sometimes I wonder if the world wouldn't be better off if all the standards organizations around the world simply went out of business.

HTH,

TOH

Justin

But, TOH got me thinking! I have a log splitter that I would love to be able to couple into my tractor's hydraulics, so should I go with a single spool valve with a "power beyond" sleeve? Would this allow me to couple in the splitter's hydraulics? I'm assuming a 5gpm valve is adequate for the loader's pump and would be able to operate the splitter. I'm sure this would be the easier route to getting the splitter up and running again without trying to get it's old motor running again.

And Big Dawg, can you help me understand the "float" option a little better? I always understood that with an open center, the hydraulics would hold wherever you let off on the valve. Is this not correct?

Thanks again for the replies and the help.

Justin

The float option usually works by moving the control lever to the full down position on a double acting lift cylinder. Instead of applying downward hydraulic pressure to the mechanism the cylinder acts like a gravity down single action cylinder. The implement lowers of it's own weight and usually rests on the ground without any additional down pressure. This is a nice feature for a double acting cylinder on a loader bucket for example when you are grading or pushing snow. The float position is usually signaled by a light detente in the lever action - you feel a slight snapping action as you go from full power down to float. It's only useful for double acting cylinders.

An open center valve simply allows the hydraulic fluid from the pump to pass through unrestricted when no power circuit (spool) is active. A closed center valve does not pass fluid in the neutral position and the pump will build to relief pressure and hold with the fluid returning to the sump via the relief valve.

The power beyond sleeve provides an open center valve with a passthru port to a down line valve. Even when the 1st valve is in the neutral position the PB port can deliver pressure to downline valves. On a loader tractor the loader control valve often gets power directly from the pump and feeds it to the 3pt control valve via the PB port. Both valves are capable of independent operation.

TOH

Thanks for the input! After looking at different models, I think I'm going to need a Tandem 3-way (single spool) valve like this one:

>Link

It>Link looks like it will raise the lift when the lever is pulled, hold the lift in position in neutral, and release pressure when the lever is pushed. They even look to be convertable in case I ever decide to go with double acting cylinders. Does this sound right?

Would a valve like this accept a PB cylinder so that I could put a disconnect and tie in my woodsplitter's system?

Thanks again. Love the knowledge floating around here!

Justin

Your Prince Valve at Surplus Center

TOH

So does this mean that I wouldn't be able to add a PB cylinder to this valve? Or just that I couldn't operate the log splitter unless the loader valve was in the neutral position?

Thanks again,
Justin

The definitive source on Prince valve data:

Prince Valve Catalog

TOH

Looks like the Prince RD5100 valve is the same as the RD2500 only with the power beyond capabilities.

Justin

Food for thought #1. Why not pop for a second double acting spool now just in case somewhere down the line you need to control a second cylinder????? Those "stackable" units are very versatile in that regard but pricey. I realize budegetary issues often take precedence but a two spool DA valve with PB is pretty flexible.

Food for thought #2. You've got the major deficiency with the N hydraulic pump (low volume and "dead") licked with the loader pump. Why not plumb the tractor sump to the valve and feed the 3pt lift from the PB. Plumbing supplies - maybe $100. Live hydraulics - priceless.

Short term economies all too often wind up being additional expense in the longer term. But that's obviously up to you to evaluate.

TOH

So, let me get this straight, I can grab a valve w/ the "power beyond" feature and plumb it back into my tractor's hydraulics for "live" 3-pt hydraulics too? Wow, that would be awesome! I take it that the 3-pt hydraulics would still be controlled by the quadrant, or would I need a second spool on my valve for these controls?

On the same lines, what would be the cleanest plumbing? Would you go in through the access cover? Also, does this get plumbed directly into the hydraulic piston assembly (bypassing the belly pump)?

Sorry about all the questions. I'm pretty new at all this and have never even looked inside the belly to see what I'd even be getting into.

Thanks again. This is very helpful.
Justin

Here's a picture of the $9 test port adapter I just purchased for LoneStarJeff.

Here it is installed and capped on the tractor:

As for plumbing the sump I made this prototype banjo fitting just for giggles but have never tried to put it into service. I think it's gross overkill but at the time I was thinking about using it to wed a 5g external tank to the sump for additional capacity (10gpm pump):

And here it is installed (minus hose barb) on the sump:

I would think an elbow of suitable size installed in the drain plug would work just as well for most purposes. Probably want to put some sort of skid plate protection on it to avoid snagging it and ripping the plug/fitting out of the sump.

TOH

There are a few two-spool valves on ebay at the moment that offer PB. Might have to keep an eye on them to pick something usable up for cheap. I guess w/ a 2-spooler (having 2 PB ports), I could technically plumb the N's hydraulics AND the wood splitter off of the FEL. Man, this is great!

Justin

Also - a two spool valve only has one PB port. In my case on my loader tractor I put a quick coupler on the PB port of the loader valve. In normal operation it's connected to the feed to the 3pt valve. When I want to operate my log splitter I connect the OC valve on the splitter to the PB port via the coupler and the OC output of the splitter valve to the 3pt valve. So now it's Pump->Loader Valve->Splitter Valve->3pt Valve. When the splitter valve is actuated the 3pt valve is disabled. Given that I'm standing on the ground next to the splitter that's not an issue. About two years ago I purchased a rear outlet block for the tractor. It replaced the top cover on the 3pt cylinder and is also fitted with a QD couple. Now I just plug the splitter in there but it requires the 3pt valve be placed in the full up position (equivalent to chaining down the lift arms on an N) to obtain constant pressure. For real remote ports you need some kind of proportioning valve that splits the pump output into two independent power circuits. See the Prince catalog for examples. They to are availabel from the Surplus Center for a small fee. And of course, as the complexity of the supply lines increases so to does the complexity of the returns. In some jurisdictions you may need to obtain a plumbing permit ;-)

TOH

Thinking about the N's plumbing issues. . . if pressurizing through the test port does work, could you access the sump from the top by means of a hardline acting as a dip/suction tube? That would reduce the amount of risk you would have of ripping it off the bottom or snagging it on something. Just a thought.

Justin

I toyed with the N top side plumbing idea for a bit for the very reasons you mention. You lose 4" or so of ground clearance in addition to the breakage problem. But there's a lot of topside mechanism in the way. Maybe a 90 degree pickup through an inspection port. I've never even taken one off so I have no idea what clearances are in there.

The N sump holds 5 gallons which limits your external pump to about 5GPM flow rate without risking overheating the oil. Rule of thumb is 1GPM/Gallon of reservoir capacity.

In my case a secondary issue was wedding an external reservoir. I wanted to mount it such that it was level with the reservoir in the tractor sump and use that big fitting to join the two. Connected at the bottom gravity would keep the fluid levels equal and the pump suction would pull from the external tank and return to the tractor sump.

TOH

The loader still has the original low capacity pump on the front, which should work fine on the tractor and loader reservoirs for now. A larger capacity pump would make me think a little harder about more storage, but aren't those pumps only rated about 5gpm anyway?

I might have to sneak a peak into the belly and see what issues I may have. Sounds like the best option would be to go through the side access plate or possibly the top cover. Both would be fairly easy to replace if you did a permanent modification and decided to ever go back.

The wheels keep turning!

Justin

TOH

My latest tractor was a 54 NAA that I converted to double acting cylinders with down pressure. Unfortunately I had to sell it. (sure miss the thing)

Doug

Surplus Center

I'd recommend you also get a power beyond sleeve ($20) for whatever valve you get. That will allow you to hook-up additional hydraulic outlets or power your three point from the front pump (live hydraulics).

TOH

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