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SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order.

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9N Chuck in MO

05-08-2001 08:25:12




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Hey fellas, I've decided that it is the coil. I have ordered a 12 volt coil for my front mount and expect it to arrive on Thursday. I am hoping to reach MO, and/or 9N'er with this post. I got an email from a nice guy, Gary, that lead me to a sizeable set of posts from 7/06/2000. MO had taken distributor and coil to Ford Tractor Dealer and gotten spark in the shop but none when mounted back on the tractor. I have 12 volt system and understand that my battery may deliver too much voltage to the coil. If I put volt meter on end of coil wire where it will attach to coil post, without wire attached ( so I don't burn up another coil), how much voltage should I have? I am thinking 10 to 11 volts, right? Please, if possible, keep answer simple on this because I am the original moron when it comes to electricity. HEY, MO and 9N'er, if you're out there, What Happened When You Finally Figured It Out?
And thanks a lot to everyone for all your help on this so far!

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9N'er

05-08-2001 11:59:40




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 Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 05-08-2001 08:25:12  
Welcome to the world of figuring out N-Series electricals and starting systems. You're on the right track. It's good to be perplexed from time to time (just kidding ya).

Basically, if you have a 12V system, and you're not getting spark to the plugs you need to start at the battery and follow the wires with a light meter to determine where you are not getting current. A voltmeter is way beyond my expertiese but I think it has to do with a fella named Kerchoff. Don't ask me, but he's to blame for your woes.

But once you've eliminated all the other places and your're at the top of the coil (crack open a beer and sit down and chuckle...(just kidding again)) and current is there, purchase a digital meter type. They are easier to read and folow the advice below.

Anyways for me, I have 12V system that I plan to remove and put on the shelf forever. But on it, I have a new keyswitch and ammeter gauge. I also have two dropping resistors to the 6V coil. One is a larger ceramic resistor and I don't have the part number. I then have the lead from that going to one side of standard dropping resistor that mounts on the backside of the left dash and from the other side of it that lead wire goes to the top of the coil. They call this resistors in series.

I will have to send you my wiring diagram to help you trace it, but it is working out great for me. I do have a 12V coil as a spare, but it has been so long that I cannot remember if it requires a dropping resistor. I will have to dig into my notebook and figure that out.

But I am in the habit of changing points, setting gap and timing, and checking plugs as basic maintenance. I completely removed every old wire switch, and gauge and rewired it to give me piece of mind.

I am being very general here without the aid of my notes I kept during that process. Dell, CLaus and others here are the best and can lead you there. I'll follow your progress and chime in to help decipher some of it for you. If I could post my wiring diagram it would be easy to explain it to you.

But guess what? once it starts...I guarantee that you will smile...but getting there is perplexing and a good education. Just remember to blame a guy named Kerchoff. 9n'er

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p.s. drain the oil before you roll her into the pond..it makes great hair conditoner

05-08-2001 12:01:22




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 Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N'er, 05-08-2001 11:59:40  
:) submitted will full respect.



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9N Chuck in Mo

05-08-2001 13:06:32




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 Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to p.s. drain the oil before you roll her into the pond..it makes great hair conditoner, 05-08-2001 12:01:22  
I figured I would shoot her in the pan before rolling her down into the pond. Hadn't thought about other uses for the oil :) Strangely, the last thing maintenence wise that I did before this electrical tantrum started was "change the oil"



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9N'er

05-08-2001 15:14:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in Mo, 05-08-2001 13:06:32  
Your humor is good and your attitude. If you e-mail me a your postal address, I can send you a simple and easy to follow wiring diagram. It is a composite of what's available on the net and my own way of seeing the world. It works for me. Hang in there...someone here said awhile ago that their 8N is sitting in the bottom of the Mississippi River. They figure it's serving as good catfish breeding, spawning, and mating cover. For me, I don't need cover, I just chase the wife around the yard with the tractor. It provides entertainment for the local folk on this road. Hang in there...you'll get there. And thanks for asking. 9N'er

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9N Chuck in MO

05-09-2001 06:48:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N'er, 05-08-2001 15:14:58  
Hey 9N'er, I would like to get that diagram from you. You can send it to me at: Chuck Jenkins, 5814 N. Oak, Gladstone, MO 64118. Would have emailed you but didn't have a link to your e-address. Thanks a lot, Chuck



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10-4

05-09-2001 17:16:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 05-09-2001 06:48:05  
10-4. will get that into the mail this Saturday! 9n'er



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don't do that . . . Dell (WA)

05-08-2001 10:53:57




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 Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 05-08-2001 08:25:12  
Chuck..... .you're only simi-right.

If'n you measure the frontmount ignition coil wire while it is dangling out in the open and not connected to your coil with your volt meter, you will indeed read battery voltage. Which is not the answer that you want, but it is the truth of electricity.

And yes, you want to read about 10 volts at the coil terminal to keep from burning out your expensive 12 volt coil. And to complicate things even more, your alternator will put out about 14.7 volts which I guarentee will burn out your 12 volt coil.

So whats an electrically challenged person gonna do?

Pay attention now. You gotta slow down them thar volts with a power resistor before they get to your frontmount terminal.

There are 2 ways to do this.

1) go to radio shack and get a 0.4 to 0.5 ohms, 20 to 25 watts power resistor. Get the clerk to help you find one. Exact values are not too critical, 20% tollarance in electronic parts anyways. I don't think you will ever find this part at a tractor parts stor or an automobile part store, so don't even bother.

2) OR...pay attention here because it really gets trickkey...If'n you still have the infamious OEM "ballast resistor" mounted on the backside of your dash, you can connect another OEM ballast resistor in "PARALLEL" (which means side by side, like dual tires). So the electricity gets split-up and about 1/2 goes thru each ballast resistor and joins together again and goes to the new 12 volt frontmount ignition coil.

Whichever way you choose, you should then get about 10 volts at the ignition coil terminal after it is connected up and the ignition points are closed. If'n the ignition points are open, you will get battery voltage. It electric theory again.

Which ever way you decide to do it, make a pencil drawing of how you think you are suppost to wire it. Then if it doesn't work right, make another pencil drawing of how you actually did it. and compare.

Hope this helps..... ...Dell

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9N Chuck in MO

05-08-2001 11:31:09




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 Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to don't do that . . . Dell (WA), 05-08-2001 10:53:57  
Thanks Dell, I appreciate your help. I will go to radio shack. Although I am understanding more about the whole system everyday, I am confused with the OEM "ballast resistor". I do have a little rectangular block mounted on the back of the dash that I have imagined was some sort of voltage reducer, so I now think is a ballast resistor. My coil wire comes from one of the prongs sticking out the back of it and so I am surprised that with the volt meter set on 10, I am pegging it, even with the battery hot wire going into one of the other little prongs. Just doesn't seem like it is reducing it. Well, I have ordered the 12 coil and I will reduce volts in the coil line, with the radio shack gizmo. Thanks again, Chuck

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Dell (WA)

05-08-2001 11:56:08




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 Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 05-08-2001 11:31:09  
Chuck..... ..pay attention,.....

You eather use just the radio shack resistor alone scheme.

OR you use the dual ballast resistor scheme.

DO NOT USE BOTH!!!!

That means do not feed the radio shack resistor through the ballast resistor BECAUSE if you do, you will have sparkie problems.

And yes, that little black block on the back of your ignition panel is your OEM ballast resistor as used in the original 6 volt frontmount ignition scheme.

And as Claus explained, if'n you don't have a complete circuit, you won't get a voltage drop. And that means that the ballast resistor is just doing what electrical theory sez it should be doing, nuttin, because you don't have a complete circuit. Therefore, you will read battery voltage even through the ballast voltage dropping resistor.

Hope this helps..... ..Dell

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9N Chuck in MO

05-08-2001 13:13:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to Dell (WA), 05-08-2001 11:56:08  
You're helping alot. Like I said before, I am the original electrical moron. Strangely, some of it is actually beginning to click. Thanks again. Will let you know how it works out.



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Claus

05-08-2001 10:27:46




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 Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to 9N Chuck in MO, 05-08-2001 08:25:12  
Well, I understand what you want to accomplish, but it does not work that way.. The ignition system is what is called a series circuit. When you turn on the ignition switch, and the points are closed the current will leave the battery, travel through the Ignition switch, then any ballast resistor(s) and then through the coil primary and then through the points to ground. Ground returns to the battery. So now we have current flow. As long as any part of the circuit is open, no current can flow. No current flow and no voltage drops. Any of various conditions can cause the current to not flow, The ig. sw in not on, resistor open, wire open, coil not in circuit or open and points being open. So because the coil is not in the cicuit, if I measure the voltage at the lead that connects to the coil, I will read battery voltage because no current is flowing. (Execpt a miniscule amount that the meter uses which one can ignore in this case. This only becomes a consideration in high impedance circuits.) That is also the reason when we mention the voltage on the coil terminal, we allways specify 2 numbers, one with the points open (No current flow) and one with the points closed. (Current flow)
Happy Motoring
Claus

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9N Chuck in MO

05-08-2001 11:39:44




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 Re: Re: SHOOT HER ROLL HER INTO THE POND, in that order. in reply to Claus, 05-08-2001 10:27:46  
Thanks, Claus. I have gotten a lot of info today and I am gaining an education. I will let you know when I solve this mystery. Any recollection of what happened with MO and 9N'er last July? Any idea how they solved their problems? I know that you are on the board a lot and that was almost a year ago, hopefully I will hear from one of them. Gee, hopefully the 12 coil I have ordered will just solve the problem. I guess one thing is good, I have learned a lot, and I basically have a completely new distributor! Thanks again, Chuck

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