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Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring

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Ron Mac in West

05-22-2006 12:03:26




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I want to "clean up" some rewiring on a 1950 8N that I am refuburbishing. The tractor had been converted to a 12-volt system with a one-wire Delco alternator and it runs well since I finished rebuilding the engine. However, I want to clean up the messy wiring job the previous owner had installed when he simply "hung" an on/off toggle switch beneath the hood and when he installed a "rubber-headed" push button starter switch under the dash where the standard "keyed" 8N ignition switch normally goes. The pic is how the wiring is currently done. My questions are, can I replace the toggle switch with the normal keyed on/off 8N switch, can I simply remove the rubber-headed push button and use the original push-button starter grounding switch on the top of the transmission case and how would I reconnect an amp gauge into this circuit? All help greatly appreciated.

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DavidO

05-23-2006 04:22:10




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 12:03:26  
Ron, See Bob's post below. There are several reasons why that is the best way to do it. The only thing I might consider doing differently is to go ahead and convert the one wire alternator to a three wire. Just need to add a couple of wires and a diode or marker lamp. "Cinchy".



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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-23-2006 07:45:06




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to DavidO, 05-23-2006 04:22:10  
Hi David,

I am familiar with the advantages of a 3-wire alternator over the 1-wire. I have already decided that, if the 1-wire alternator that came with the tractor proves to be no good once I hook up the gauge, I plan to change it out for a 3-wire alternator. Thanks for the reply. Ron



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DavidO

05-23-2006 08:57:24




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-23-2006 07:45:06  
Ron, the point was that, if the alternator is OK, you should be able to just rewire it in a 3 wire configuration without replacing it and it should work fine. All of the one wire alternators that I have had, had the plug terminals for the 3 wire configuration, it was just covered up. I have done several with no problems.



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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-23-2006 13:53:34




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to DavidO, 05-23-2006 08:57:24  
I hadn't realized that I had one of the old Ford solenoids on another 8N so this morning I was able to get the tractor wired with a 2-position key switch and the original tranny top starter button. It all worked well but, after hooking up the amp gauge, I now know why it was unhooked by the previous owner. The alternator is not working. Now to decide what to do, i.e., new alternator, rebuild, etc. It may have been rebuilt before because the case-stamped ampherage number has been filed off. The numbers I can see are "1102480" and a filed (or rubbed) area then an "A". Below these numbers and letters are the numbers "5A10-12VN-6" (difficult to read).

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K.LaRue-VA

05-22-2006 12:48:55




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 12:03:26  
As far as the amp guage goes, you just connect a wire from the battery to one side and EVERYTHING else to the other side of the guage. If it reads basackwards, reverse the wires. But rather than adding two additional terminals to teh wiring that carry LOTS of current, I like to use a Volt guage instead. Just connect the positive lead to a switched source and ground the other side. The volt guage carries almost no current tells you all you need to know and is a lot more reliable way to do it.

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duey

05-22-2006 23:12:55




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to K.LaRue-VA, 05-22-2006 12:48:55  
KL, You've got it RIGHT!!!!! !!!!! Cheers duey



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old

05-22-2006 12:38:14




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 12:03:26  
On the toggle switch yes you can just replace it with a key type switch. As far as the push button switch thats a yes, no, or maybe. It depends on if the solinoid that is on the starter is the correct type solinoid. But from your diagram I would have to say the answer is NO. Unless you also replace the solinoid with the factory type.

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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-22-2006 13:16:47




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to old, 05-22-2006 12:38:14  
Maybe I should just install the rubber push-button in the dash hole where the old light switch is located. The tractor has the old original fused light switch but someone had long since removed the headlamps. That will at least clean up the hanging wires.

I like your Oliver restorations.

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old

05-22-2006 14:38:19




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 13:16:47  
You could also put in an ignition switch with the start function built right in and then you have the key plus you have to turn the key to start it sort of like on your car.



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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-22-2006 16:28:08




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to old, 05-22-2006 14:38:19  
third party image

Not sure why that didn't cross my mind. Sure. That will work. I'm obviously electronically challenged but I think the wiring will go like this. What do you think?



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Bob

05-22-2006 20:06:48




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 16:28:08  
Be safe, and put the tranny-top safety neutral start switch back in the circuit. The life you save may be your's or a loved one's.

Even 50 years ago, they were safety-concious enough to put that safety switch there!



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Bob

05-22-2006 20:22:42




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Bob, 05-22-2006 20:06:48  
OOOPS... missed the intended link:

Third Party Image



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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-23-2006 06:56:54




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Bob, 05-22-2006 20:22:42  
Hi Bob,

Does it matter that the solenoid 8N11450 is for a 6-volt system? I too like the idea of getting the tranny-top "lock-out" push-button switch back on the tractor.

Also, regarding the ignition you mentioned as being SS-559, is that the standard 2-position 8N ignition switch? If so, I have this part already and would only need the solenoid.

Ron



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Bob

05-23-2006 07:15:10




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-23-2006 06:56:54  
The 6-Volt solenoids tolerate 12-Volt use very well, because the cranking cycle is so short they don't heat up excessively.

"Standard Ignition" is the corporate name of a company that makes generic ignition and electrical parts which are sold by a variety of auto parts stores.

The number given, "SS-559" is THEIR part # for the correct starter solenoid.

Here's a little drawing showing the internal connections of that solenoid:

Third Party Image

So, I listed the OEM #, the Standard Ignition part #, and the NAPA part number for the correct placement starter solenoid.

Whatever auto parts store you frequent should be able to cross at least one of those part numbers to the brand they carry!

It is unlikely the 6-Volt solenoid will ever cause you any problems on 12-Volts. However, here is a way to use a certain style of 12-Volt solenoid with this system, if you feel you need a 12-Volt solenoid. Do this only if you understand the circuit, and be sure to (safely) verify the neutral start function is working as it's supposed to!

Third Party Image

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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-23-2006 07:35:28




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Bob, 05-23-2006 07:15:10  
Got it and thanks! We do have a NAPA dealer here who is failry good. However, I went ahead and ordered the Ford solenoid as I needed a few other 8N parts anyway. I have three 8Ns right now, one completed (1951), the one we are discussing here (1950), and one that needs a tranny (ca 1948).

I'm slowly learning about the electronics on these little red-bellies but each one has been a little bit different.

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Bob

05-23-2006 07:43:04




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-23-2006 07:35:28  
Please post back, and let us know how it turns out!



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old

05-22-2006 17:37:12




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 16:28:08  
That looks about the way it should be. Most of the universal ignition switchs have ign. batt. and a S or st on them. Of course I think you can figure you what and where each wire will go



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Ron Mac in West Texas

05-22-2006 19:10:55




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to old, 05-22-2006 17:37:12  
I'll have to see if I can find one of the universal switches in the morning but this is a very small town. I had two of the 2-position switches but none of the multi-terminal ones. I think those switches also have an accessory position.

Since the old tractor did not have the amp gauge hooked up, I'll probbaly be lucky if the alternator actually works. Always something with these old Fords but they sure are fun to work on. Thanks for the help.

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old

05-22-2006 19:44:44




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 Re: Trying to cleaning up 8N wiring in reply to Ron Mac in West Texas, 05-22-2006 19:10:55  
Some of the universals type key switches have the acc, post some don't. Any auto parts store should have them in stock



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