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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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update on wiring problem

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ron,ar

07-10-2006 06:50:12




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As noted below I rewired the 8N EXACTLY as shown in the pictures that Bob and Dell posted, using the 194 bulb. It would not shut off. I even tried 2 bulbs inline. Still no shut off. I had the alternator checked this morning, regulator not working right. It is putting out almost 16 volts. I doubt that the 194 bulb would stand the voltage long at that rate. I did have my coil wire run through the old ballast resistor. I guess maybe I should make the drive to the big city and get a couple of ceramic resistors and another alt huh? Another question for Dell: years ago Ford used a resistor wire in its harness(automobile) to limit voltage to the coil. Ford still sells that wire, I wonder if anyone has any experiance using it instead of ceramic resistors?

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10 pen

07-10-2006 07:11:33




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to ron,ar, 07-10-2006 06:50:12  
buy alt. that has only one wire



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souNdguy

07-10-2006 07:17:01




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to 10 pen, 07-10-2006 07:11:33  
IMHO.. that's a poor choice.

The 3 wire jobs excite at a much lower rpm.

Soundguy



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Bob

07-10-2006 07:28:06




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to souNdguy, 07-10-2006 07:17:01  
Ditto!

One-wire alternators = YEEEAAACCCHHH!

It is so easy (and cheaper) to hook up a "3-wire" unit, which will "excite" at lower RPM's, and drain the battery LESS during periods of non-use than the goofy "1-wire" units.

Third Party Image

A diode (1N5408 is a good, heavy-duty choice), for less than a couple of bucks, will make an off-the shelf 10SI alternator perform perfectly, at a low cost for a re-man unit, or perhaps $5 to $10 for a "recycled" unit.

Pretty reasonable, compared to what some outfits are hawking the goofy "one-wire" units for!

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10pen

07-10-2006 07:40:32




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to Bob, 07-10-2006 07:28:06  
what works for me is all i need...i dont have to worry about the price....



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10pen

07-10-2006 07:25:25




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to souNdguy, 07-10-2006 07:17:01  
i have 6 one wire alt.in use ,no problems,,,cost more ,,so



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souNdguy

07-10-2006 07:47:16




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to 10pen, 07-10-2006 07:25:25  
Lots of people use them.. be cause they are afraid of wireing..

I stand by what I said before. They simply are not the best choice.. even though they do work.

Soundguy



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Bob

07-10-2006 07:31:09




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to 10pen, 07-10-2006 07:25:25  
10pen,

Just how MANY handles do you post here by?

(Or is there a WEIRD co-inkydink going on with the IP's???)



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10 pen

07-10-2006 08:01:50




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to Bob, 07-10-2006 07:31:09  
we have a machine shop ,welding shop ,tractor repair shop here, 12 people work here,1computer,we dont sell on e.bay,..dont have computer police,plenty of cash...no one here will post on the bobs forum again..have a nice day....



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Bob

07-10-2006 08:24:24




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to 10 pen, 07-10-2006 08:01:50  
It must be quite a place! Interesting, though, all posts have the same "style". I guess that's what happens when folks work together long enough!



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Bob

07-10-2006 07:05:53




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to ron,ar, 07-10-2006 06:50:12  
If it is running and starting well with the old ballast resistor, leave well enough alone. You are getting enough ignition voltage, so long as it starts and runs well.

The ceramic resistors (Dell's trick resistors) have LESS resistance than the OEM ballast resistor, and will heat the coil MORE, and wear the breaker points QUICKER than what you are using.

There seems to be 12-Volt coils out there with several winding resistance values, and, realistically, with these wimpy coils, the less primary current they have to carry, the better, as long as there is enough spark form the coil's secondary to make the engine start and run well.

Some seem to need the relatively low resistance of "Dell's trick resistor to make enough spark for the engine to start and run properly, others do just fine with the OEM ballast resistor.

One thing IS sure, though. Most, if not ALL the aftermarket so-called "12-Volt" coils need at least SOME resistance in the primary circuit to prevent coil failure from overheating, and short breaker point life.

I still can't figure out how enough current is getting through a #194 bulb, much less 2 in series, to keep the engine running when the key is shut off!

On many of my 12-Volt conversions, I use a diode in place of the lamp, eliminating ANY possibility of that happening.

Link loading="auto" style="width:auto;height:auto" alt="Third Party Image">">Link

The Ford resistance wire lead would be closer in resistance to the OEM ballast resistor, than to "Dell's Trick Resistor".

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souNdguy

07-10-2006 07:14:42




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to Bob, 07-10-2006 07:05:53  
Bob.. I can almost see the single 194 bulb not doing it.. due to the increased votlage output of the alternator. might had just enough juice for a weak orange spark.. but 2.. man.. that's hard to believe. I think a wireing recheck needs to happen.

Soundguy



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Ron,ar

07-10-2006 08:08:05




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to souNdguy, 07-10-2006 07:14:42  
I can't figure out why with all that voltage it didn't burn out the old ballast resistor. (they don't build em like that anymore). I am going with the three wire delco because of cost. As I posted early on, this 12 volt conversion is temporary. I have saved all my 6 volt stuff, generator, wiring harness ect to reinstall later. I just want to get it running better and see what I have here. I just got this tractor and it was all there (and I have access to plenty of spare parts). It's just a project, It's supposed to be fun, and Lord knows I need something to relax with. Thanks to all who have replied here.

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Phil (NJ,Az,Sask)

07-10-2006 16:21:12




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 Re: update on wiring problem in reply to Ron,ar, 07-10-2006 08:08:05  
[Quote}It is putting out almost 16 volts. I doubt that the 194 bulb would stand the voltage long at that rate.[/quote]

The output of the ALT should be switched OFF by the ignition switch. Its the voltage provided by the Alt Excite diode trio that keeps your ignition running and what the diode blocks &/or 194 bulb limits. Make sure your wiring is correct per BOB's Diagram.

Those old Ford Ballast Wires had problems.. I have one in my spare parts & will measure the sucker.

The Napa/Echlin Part number ICR23 or ICR11 will
work ~ 2.2 Ohms @ 3 amps. The NAPA's have a number stamped on one of the Elecrical connectors that is 1.2 (add 1.0 ohm).

I have not located the MFD number for one with .55 (match to oem) but I have one in my parts.

The calculation for the correct Ballast is 3 amps of Coil current.

14.5 volts/3 amps = 4.8 Ohms total R

Coil OEM = .9 ohms

Total Ballast Resistance = 3.9 Ohms (@ 3 amps)

The Original Ballast is ~1.7 + 2.2 (ICR23) = 3.9


Have Fun,

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