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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ???????

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ZANE

07-25-2006 05:00:14

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I want to de bunk this "rope in the cylinder trick" thing.

It would be really tricky if a person could somehow get a rope to go into the cylinder enough to actually block the piston coming to the top.
This is an N engine and not a Briggs and Stratton.

A picture is worth a thousand words!

Understand!?

Zane

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Homer in Tx

07-25-2006 15:32:02

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

Didn"t work for me with 6ft. rope. Removing the starter and blocking the flywheel DID.(As Bob suggested).

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SteveB(OH)

07-25-2006 11:55:59

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

My $0.02 is that when I had to replace the crankshaft pulley on my 48 8N I took out a spark plug, put some rope down the hole, put a wrench on the pully bolt and gently turned the engine until the piston hit the rope.

Then I leaned on the wrench until the bolt came loose. Installation was reverse of removal.

When I was done I released the piston from the rope and pulled the rope out.

Worked like a charm, and I'm glad that I had heard of this handy trick.

This is sorta like when my neighbor looked at my chugging 8N and pointed to the fuel filter that I had added. He wagged his finger and told me that a gravity feed system like the 8N would not run with an extra filter like I had added. I replied that as long as it sounded like it was running, and cut grass like it was running, I didn't care that it wasn't REALLY running...

:) :)

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Westwind

07-25-2006 11:55:25

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

OK guys N gals, I just have to add something here. Whether or not the rope trick works in the NAA/8N/2N/9N I don't know, but let me tell you what does work..... If you can find an old PTO shaft, cut it off long enough to extend beyond the lift arms on your 3 point. Simply attach it to the PTO shaft, bend it at a right angle over the lift arm. (Either side depending on if your trying to loosen or tighten a stuck crankshaft pulley bolt, and heave all you want on the bolt up front, the PTO shaft ain't turning and neither is your crankshaft. As Dell would say, "Simple, eh"?

Wes

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Jack Nims

07-25-2006 11:37:28

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

Thanks Zane! I needed that reinforcement. I heard of this rope trick a few years ago but it was for stuck exhaust valves on 0-200 A Continental airplane engine--and it works for them, but they are not comparable to the 8N engine. When I replaced my crankshaft pulley, I used a pipe wrench, the tractor frame, and the starter to tighten/loosen the bolt. The gentleman who showed me this referred to it as a "old trick" he had learned from a mechanic. A safe trick? Probably not. But he did it and lived.
Again, thanks for the picture. EXPLAINS the MYTH.
Jack 48 /Ford 8N

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ron,ar

07-25-2006 11:35:39

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not me! in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

I really have a problem with putting ANYTHING down a sparkplug hole. It just ain"t natural!!!

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Hobo,NC

07-25-2006 09:07:41

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

Best I kin do izz git 1 ft of roap in their, cyl has to be at the bottom. It did not matter what kind of rope I tryed as a matter of fact the stiffer the rope the better it werked. Guess it would depend on how much starch you used on the rope he! he!. The first time I tried it on a N engine over here on the floor it werked great I wuz able to feed 3 or four ft in their and then looked over on the side and saw it wuz hit'in the floor, the valves are out of the engine, so stuck valves back in and that�s the best I kin come up with, will 1 ft hold the engine I don't know. Kin more than 1 ft be cramed in their I would say yes iffin you jiggled and fiddle farted around lone enoufh. I have used this trick successfully on other types of engines with no adverse affect.

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flathead

07-25-2006 09:39:42

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-25-2006 09:07:41

Seems to me, once you took the head off to put the valves back in, you coulda stuffed the whole dang coil of rope in it.

flathead

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Hobo,NC

07-25-2006 11:55:53

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to flathead, 07-25-2006 09:39:42

Head wuz already off just laid it back on fer the test, Hobos Tinker tech in action. I did not say it would lock�er up just its possible to feed it sum rope> 1 ft aint gonna do it , it would take 3 to 4 ft of magic rope like maybe you kin find on the west coast. It izz interesting to find shad tree methods for those who do not have access to the good stuff to werk with.

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flathead

07-25-2006 12:04:38

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-25-2006 11:55:53

I hear you Hobo. I was just being a smart-a$$. Thanks for the test results.

flathead

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Cargocult

07-25-2006 09:15:37

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-25-2006 09:07:41

Right On!! I was wondering if somebody would attempt it and solve this issue once & 4 all! I'd a dunnit, but I need my tractor 2 use and don't wanna do something that might disable it!

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Dan

07-25-2006 06:29:04

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

Zane - not to be dissagreeable, but the rope trick does work - I have used that method to free the very stuck crank bolt on my NAA Project Rustbucket. I will say though, it took much more rope than I thought it would to finally jamb the piston and keep it from reaching TDC under the amount of torque I had to apply to crack the crank nut loose. I used that soft flexible nylon woven rope, and quite a bit of it.

Dan

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ZANE

07-25-2006 10:32:12

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 06:29:04

I didn't say it wouldn't work in an NAA. An NAA is another animal completely. It is an in the head engine and not an L head engine like the N engine is.

Rope in the NAA will work!

Zane

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Bob

07-25-2006 07:42:28

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 06:29:04

I think ZANE's point is that the spark plug in the "N" flathead engine is over the valves, NOT over the piston, and for the rope trick to work, you have to snake the rope at a 90-degree angle over the valves to get it to drop into the cylinder.

The sparkplug hole on the NAA and most other OHV engines is directly over the piston, and it would be MUCH easier to drop the rope into the cylinder.

I can't for the life of me imagine WHY someone would want to do this to stop the rotation of the engine while tightening a crank pulley bolt, or whatever.

You have no idea if the rope is centered on the piston, or off to one side, possibly putting all the force on one side, cocking the piston skirt against the cylinder wall.

Many times, rods are bent, or pistons are damaged when an engine is "hydrolocked" by having water leaked into a cylinder, and then someone tries to crank it over. With the "rope on the cylinder trick", you are doing darned near the same thing trapped water in the cylinder does!

While I admit there probably isn't much chance of hurting the piston, it is a chance I will not take. It's not that big of a deal to pull the starter, and get a good "catch" on a ring gear tooth with a big screwdriver or a prybar.

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TheOldHokie

07-25-2006 07:56:12

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Bob, 07-25-2006 07:42:28

Impact wrench - priceless!

TOH

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Dan

07-25-2006 08:05:53

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to TheOldHokie, 07-25-2006 07:56:12

YES! I have since aquired an air compressor and impact wrench. I don't know how I ever got by working on old iron without them now.

Dan

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ease

07-25-2006 06:40:57

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 06:29:04

might work on naa....9-2-8n ???

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Dan

07-25-2006 07:20:36

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ease, 07-25-2006 06:40:57

Why wouldn't it work on a 9N/2N/8N? It is the principle that is being proven. This same principle should work in ANY engine that has pistons attached to a offset crankshaft that goes up and down (or sideways for that matter). If you can restrict the piston from traveling to full TDC, you can stop and secure the crank shaft. The only difference would be the amount of rope you would have to stuff in.

I'm sorry - I just don't see your logic on this statement. Is there something I am missing?

Dan

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ease

07-25-2006 07:45:36

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 07:20:36

been working on tractors since 1940,never used rope,learn new things each day..better way ..

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flathead

07-25-2006 07:43:46

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 07:20:36

I think Zanes point is that on the flathead engine, the sparkplug hole is directly above the valves not the piston. Looking at the combustion chamber, there is very little room for the rope to bend 90 degrees and snake its way into the cylinder. On Rustbucket, the piston is a straight shot down from the sparkplug hole.

flathead

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Dan

07-25-2006 08:04:17

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to flathead, 07-25-2006 07:43:46

Now that makes sense. Of course, if you place the piston at the bottom of travel, once you get the end of the rope dropping down into the cylinder (which can be done fairly easily) the rest of the rope will follow. But, at least now I understand why others were making the comment between the NAA and 9N/2N/8N...

Thanks for the reply,
Dan

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TheOldHokie

07-25-2006 06:38:53

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to Dan, 07-25-2006 06:29:04

NAA != 8N

TOH

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YiP..John,PA

07-25-2006 05:29:05

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:00:14

Somehow or other{n) I later figgered, I guess because I survived things that didn't kill me financially, yet still,I made sure the piston was always at bottom-dead center (BDC) before I took some last years drainiNs and filled the cyl. wit it. Figgerin that worst would happen was only a litttle oi'N mess. Those times, we believed that "if'N it come from the earth, a little goi'n back iN, well, simply, it might just want to go back in, anyhow. After all, oil and water is hgeavier then top soil, after all. How did it git there to start wit????? ???

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ZANE

07-25-2006 05:52:04

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to YiP..John,PA, 07-25-2006 05:29:05

John, you forgot to take you medication again!

Zane

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Double duty day..John,PA

07-25-2006 20:28:47

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:52:04

Had to work a 48 hr shift, no sleep. Emergency service call to save an older (senioroty) female from heat exhaustion. She is the lady who actually signs the boss's checks. MOM!
Mom is feel'N much better now that I showed up. Completely re-manufactured her little air conditioner that has that Tecumseh compressor, manufactured on May 7th, 1967, ironacally the same day that I started flying airplanes for the DuPont Company, Wilmington, Delaware.

I think it is Tuesday about 11:00 PM ET. I retire for the evening, Zane. Thanks for you inquirories.

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ease

07-25-2006 06:01:25

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Re: ROPE IN THE CYLINDER TRICK ??????? in reply to ZANE, 07-25-2006 05:52:04

to much roof--truss--hot sun????

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Jim Joanie

07-25-2006 09:44:23

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Pipewrench on PTO? in reply to ease, 07-25-2006 06:01:25

Then what about a heavy duty pipewrench on the PTO as suggested earlier by someone?

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Stumpalump

07-25-2006 09:53:22

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Re: Pipewrench on PTO? in reply to Jim Joanie, 07-25-2006 09:44:23

I tried that but it started to gouge up my pto adapter sleeve real deep.

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