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Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots

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Randall(AL)

08-16-2006 12:53:13




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Ok, after searching the forums I think I understand that on a 7127 GM alternator (3 wire)install that one could use any of the three methods to keep his alternator from "running on" after switch shutoff. That was a question? I currently have purchased the team of 10 watt 1 ohm resistors for the job. These are installed in the same place as the diode in the reference link. That was the other question?
Also I do understand that the 12v thing has been hashed over to the point that the horse has no hair left on his hide. It's just that I am electrically challenged and the concept that a idiot light, a diode, and a resistor all accomplish the same task is illusive to me. To add to this my other alternator was a 1 wire self exciter and it only lasted about 5 or 6 years. I expect better durability this time with a 3-wire setup ha-ha. And it was a lot better on the pocketbook!
The other question is where has FarmerDawn been I've been away from the net for a while?

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thepostman

08-19-2006 14:04:05




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 12:53:13  
I think dan must be having a bad day. my '50 8n cranks after about three turns converted when i got it so i can't compare to 6 volt but mostly i just want it to crank when i need it.



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Right ON! Cargocult

08-21-2006 05:16:20




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to thepostman, 08-19-2006 14:04:05  
10-4 on the Bad DAY!! Dan Has REALLY LOST IT!! Again. I have NOTHING against somebody NOT convertin' their tractor. BUIT, I do tend to get upset if some a**hoiile starts sayin' I am wasting $$ doin it! Most folks have their reasons 4 whatever they do! Some folks won't accept them! Insist that their way is right & the only way! Dan is one of them, I reckon!! CC



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Randall(AL)

08-17-2006 07:24:40




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 12:53:13  
Not to get a rookus started here as to whether or not 12v alternators are right for anyone on here or not. Thanks for all the help. I've always been able to utilize this bunch of guys and get anything I wanted fixed or made to work. Not trying to convert any 6volt folks but 12volts works best for my working Jubilee. Especially for herbiciding and my future HDTV and DVD addition.



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ZANE

08-16-2006 16:31:14




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 12:53:13  
You can use the "triode" out of any Delcon alternator to prevent the field from energizing the ignition with the "three wire" Delco. It is an Ugly looking contraption but it works. The triode is the thingy with one wire pointing south and three pointing north that connect to the stator windings and the regulator on the Delco alternators. any of the three terminals pointing north will work to create a diode.

Zane

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Randall(AL)

08-17-2006 07:01:27




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to ZANE, 08-16-2006 16:31:14  
How bout it Zane? See your still doing well and keeping things running up north. Still got to get by there sometime and go thru your neat stuff. That hydraulic optimizer remote deal you helped me with has been heaven. Still amazes me every time I pull the remote valve and that rake reaches for the sky.



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ZANE

08-17-2006 16:47:10




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-17-2006 07:01:27  
I'm still hanging in there! I have been working on two Ford Aerostars that I bought from my brother that have been sitting for years because nobody could justify the cost and labor of fixing them. I am driving the first one I fixed but the second one has me stumped for now. It won't keep running. I think it may be jumped time on the chain???? Both of them were running hot. The second one had to have a head. Busted! To put a head on an Aerostar you have to pull the front axle, engine and transmission out the bottom of the car. I did buy and install a two post lift before I tackled the second one. It makes things a lot better. The first one I did with the old pulp wood loader cable lift of 20,000 lbs. Aukward to say the least. Now if I can just find out what the heck is keeping it from running?

Zane

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Tim...Ok

08-16-2006 14:11:50




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 12:53:13  
the 1 ohm 10 watt resistor trick is to keep your front mount 12v coil happy from the 13.6 v that your alternator puts out..has nothing do with with backfeeding
and "run-on"..the idiot light can be used in place of the diode to to avoid the
run-on situation..hope this helps..

Tim



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old

08-16-2006 15:28:40




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Tim...Ok, 08-16-2006 14:11:50  
Tim, a resister can also be used in place of the diode or lite. I have one tractor that when I got it had a resister there and it works just fine so I just leave it there. Its just not one of the things you here about often



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old

08-16-2006 13:57:44




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 12:53:13  
Yes any one of the 3 will work. But with the lite or resistor you can have a very slow battery drain where as with a diode you will not. The lite in its own way is a small resistor so thats why it works. The doide is a sort of ZAP-U-Tron check valve and only lets current/volts go one way and thats why/how it works. Others can and probably will explain it better then I do but I like to keep things as simple as I can

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Randall(AL)

08-16-2006 14:29:18




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to old, 08-16-2006 13:57:44  
That's the way I like it. Simple as possible. The darn local (15 miles away) RS does not have that "checkvalve diode". That's why I was going to try Dell's miracle resistors because they were in stock. I'm beginning to think that between finding the illusive wider groove pulley (Had to weld mine to the 1-wire alternator because of a time pinch getting up hay and a worn alt shaft because of it running without a nut) and this whole electrical flow thing I might just use the excite it manually deal till I can find a diode.
So the resistor(s) will work right?

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souNdguy

08-17-2006 06:27:21




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 14:29:18  
I find it -very- hard to believe that your radio shack has absolutely -0- diodes or full wave rectifiers in stock ( no counting zenir diodes ).

Just about any of the diodes RS sells will work. If using the very small germanium and silicon models.. I'd parallel about 3 of them.. but then they come 10 to a pack. like a 1n914 .. etc.

Any of the larger diodes that are rated for 1a or more should be fine.

I've known many people that worked in radio shack over the years, including current employees. And have helpe dthem with stocking and inventory. Those discreet electrical components are 'forcefeed' and mandatory unit stock items. that is.. when they sell. 'x' items.. the 'x' items are automatically ordered and replenished.

The only way the store could be out of all diodes is if someone walked in in the last week ( 1 wk between shipments ) abd bought the store out.

Full wave bridges, full wave rectifiers, and bridge rectifiers will all work.. they are just 4 diodes potted together in a special arangement...

As for the the other questions.. seems like they have been answered. "YES" a diode, suitable resistor, or suitable 'lamp' will all let oyu shut your ignition down due to adding some degree of isolation betweent he ignition and the alternator field backfeed power.

A diode is the best.. it is a 1-way valve for electrons. ( cathode to the #1 terminal )

A 194 trailer marker or 'idiot' lamp is just an incandescent power resistor. If yousing power resistors.. i'd sugest something more like 5 ohms.. like 2 10ohm resistors in parallel. Reason for his is.. a 12v coil primary winding is usually in the neighborhood of 3 ohms... So you want to cut the voltage to the coil ( current thru primary ), down low enough so that you have goodreliable isolation... yet still have a few volts getting to the #1 terminal on the alternator to turn it on.

Soundguy

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Randall(AL)

08-17-2006 13:21:37




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to souNdguy, 08-17-2006 06:27:21  
Soundguy, the local RS says that it is a normal stock item. They don't have them right now and it will be a week or so before they have them.



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souNdguy

08-17-2006 20:07:01




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-17-2006 13:21:37  
Sounds like somebody walked in and bought a but load of diodes all in one shot.

The week thing sounds about right.. their shipments do come weekly as items are sold and automatically deducted from inventory, and thus automatically re-ordered. other possibility is the warehouse or distribuitor was out of stock for the regular shipment.. etc.

Soundguy



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old

08-16-2006 15:15:35




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 14:29:18  
The diode you need is Radio shack #276-1661. I've never seen a time when they didn't have them on hand. Other then when I go in and then most of the time I buy all they have in stock and keep them in my tool box for the next time I do a 12 volt conversation



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dan hill

08-16-2006 15:03:54




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-16-2006 14:29:18  
Put back the generator and the 6v battery.After 55 years in electronics I cant stop laughing at the 12v turkey coversion problems.



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Randall(AL)

08-17-2006 06:56:45




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-16-2006 15:03:54  
Ever tried to run a 12v herbicide sprayer on 6v. The turkey 12v does very well with that. Besides I'm thinking of adding a plasma screen and DVD while I'm raking hay. Thanks but no thanks. All in jest.



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dan hill

08-18-2006 03:05:37




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Randall(AL), 08-17-2006 06:56:45  
My sprayer has its own 12v battery.



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Bob

08-17-2006 03:14:22




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-16-2006 15:03:54  
And I can't help being "tickled" every time I start my 8N, which I converted to 12-Volts, in about 1975, at the age of about 17... it has worked flawlessly for over 30 years.

Why "slam" folks who have tried, sometimes successfully, to improve the outdated charging systems on these 'ole beasts?



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dan hill

08-17-2006 04:13:17




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Bob, 08-17-2006 03:14:22  
I dont spend money buying parts my tractor dosent need.The 12v turkeys probably own several hula hoops, its a me too thing with them.Check the archives for 12v conversion problems.Dufus isnt smart enough to put a 3.00 set of brushes in his generator so he junks the entire electrical system.Spends 200.00 bucks plus and still cant keep his battery charged.My tractor is a working machine not a tinker toy...

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Tim...Ok

08-17-2006 04:29:43




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-17-2006 04:13:17  
I don't seen any need for name calling over it,everybody's got an opinion.. I fumbled my way thru the conversion back about 18 years ago,no wiring diagrams,no forum,still working with the same used alternator I put on it then..must have done something right? Personally,the only reason I can see to have one on 6V is for a trailer queen restoration,but thats my opinion,if you feel the need to call me a Dufus,then go for it..

Tim

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duey

08-17-2006 15:51:37




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Tim...Ok, 08-17-2006 04:29:43  
I'm with you, Tim... did my own, made my bracket and wired it... I'm happy with it. I do believe that at least half the "IT WON'T START, WHAT DID I DO WRONG???" cries are from 6 volters, the other half are, of course, 12 volters.

$200 sounds right for the un-handy.... most of us 12 volters spend less than 10% of that.

Ain't nobody runnin' for office here.... duey



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dan hill

08-18-2006 03:01:22




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to duey, 08-17-2006 15:51:37  
Lets see an itemized list of the parts used on your 20.00 conversion.



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Tim...Ok

08-18-2006 08:06:43




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-18-2006 03:01:22  
lets see,delco alternator off of a junked out chevy,free
dropping resistor from a 1970 plymouth valiant,also free
bracket made from a chevy smog pump bracket,hmm,also free
misc. wire from same vehicle,free
guess I have about $1.99 in mine,from a package of crimp terminals,maybe $2.99 if you add in a roll of electrical tape..

Tim



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Cargocult

08-17-2006 05:42:47




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Tim...Ok, 08-17-2006 04:29:43  
I concur!! Finally did the conversion a couple of years back..difference is like night & day!! Also went for the electronic ignition conversion, as well. Now it starts INSTANTLY!! I can dig the "originality factor", but for me..practicality rules!! I need the tractor to start, not sit there "being original"!! I did, owever save the stuffs I removed, so it could be put back in the future, if somebody really wanted 2! I know I won't! Besides, 6V batteries are already gettin' scarce (& expensive)! Nothing against the guys who wanna be "original", but 4 me, I love my nice fast-starting 8N!! ;-) CC

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dan hill

08-18-2006 03:14:00




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Cargocult , 08-17-2006 05:42:47  
Last time I was looking for a sawmill battery there were seven 6 volt batteries on the rack for 30.00 each.



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Cargocult again

08-18-2006 04:32:45




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-18-2006 03:14:00  
Well, they are gettin scarce in Virginia! And EXPENSIVE!! Now, I don' wanna get into a dialog about the benefits/disadvantages of the dreaded 12V conversion! Obviously, there are points on each side! As a traditionalist, I agonized long b4 finally converting! One of the reasons was the paucity of 6v lights/accessories! And the fact that 12v is the norm these days! And the fact that I was having points trouble, and at that time, the only electronic ignition was 12v! Like I said..everybody has his reasons! I like my tractor to START, not sit there looking original! When I need it..I need it!! At the time these things were built..6V was the norm! Now 12v is the norm! In another post (about lights) I posted about finding a set of Extremely Bright Lights at the Cheap Chinese Store! Now, there weren't any 6V ones! Now, we all have reasons 4 our activities! None are better than others, just different! I don't bi*ch about U being traditional. So, why do U argue about my decision to go 12V? Like I said...I didn't do it on a whim! I agonized long about making this step! AND I saved all the 6v stuffs so it could be changed back in the future! I will not do this, but maybe somebody would, and I want them to have the opportunity! Peace, OK?? Nuff Sed!! CC

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dan hill

08-18-2006 17:31:01




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Cargocult again, 08-18-2006 04:32:45  
spending money when you dont have to is always foolish.Lessening the demand for 6v batteries and parts is plain stupid.I bought my last 6v head lite from a cnh dealer.



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Cargocult yet again

08-18-2006 17:59:01




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-18-2006 17:31:01  
So is argueing about this!! We all have our own priorities & reasons for all that we do! Now I ain't gonna get into a "war with U!" We both are right in our own lights! Enjoy ur Ford Tractor Dealer while he is there..mine recently closed! So, my Farm Suppliers are all gone, mostly. The ones that remain are ghosts of their former selves, without the extensive array of parts, etc. They are more oriented to the *#&^#%$ Yuppies that like "lawn & garden stuffs"! As fer as "lessening the supply" of 6V batteries...I don't think my battery consumption will keep any factories open!! And Ur Headlite u bought form the Ford Dealer..good! Unfortunately, I was referring to a Halogen Driving Lite Set from the Cheap Chinese Tool Store! Unfortunately, they DON'T OFFER 6V!! For Good or Bad..that's the way it is! I have the 12 V bulbs in the front lites, bought them from my supplier in NC, who shall not be mentioned! Unfortunately, the HALOGEN drivin' lites on the back outshine the original ones, so I must upgrade them! I am NOT GETTIN' ANY YOUNGER, and my vision ain't as acute as it was in my youth, so I obviously MUST COMPENSATE!! So, my reasonin' is good, despite ur comment about "spendin money when you don't have to"! Like I said earlier, each of us in this fine hobby is DIFFERENT with DIFFERENT reasons for what we do! So, let's just drop thia, before it deteriorates into A Flame War, like the grand Flame Wars of the Past! 10-4??? Peace, Man, OK?? CC

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dan hill

08-19-2006 18:33:51




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Cargocult yet again, 08-18-2006 17:59:01  
common sense is lacking here



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cargocult 1 more time

08-20-2006 05:02:06




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-19-2006 18:33:51  
"common sense is lacking here " AMEN!!! And we ALL KNOW WHO IS LACKIN! And to give ya HINT..IT AIN"T ME!! Now, I wanted to drot this whole thing BEFORE IT DETERIORATED INTO NAME-CALLING OR WORSE!! NOW.YA HAVE STEPPED IN IT!! You have REALLY CHEESED ME OFF! LIKE I SAID>>we all have our reasons..NOBODY IS RIGHT!! So why do you INSIST ON BEATING A DEAD HORSE?? We will NEVER Manage To Convince each other of the Fact that their side is WRONG! I stated all along, EVERYBODY HAS THEIR REASONS 4 da THINGS THAT THEY DO! Nobody's "side" is either worse or Better than the other! Now, I don't wanna get into a "tractor War", BUT>>I am A VETERAN of much worse before U came along! So Let's agree to disagrees like sensible folks, b4 this situation deteriorates further, OK!! CC, who IS NOW GETTIN" P*8*ed OFF!! LAST POST ! (Unless U wanna carry it further!!) 10-4??

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dan hill

08-20-2006 18:26:19




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to cargocult 1 more time, 08-20-2006 05:02:06  
I repeat, you have lost it .Read your own post.



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Cargocult 4 D LAST TIME!

08-21-2006 05:16:31




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-20-2006 18:26:19  
I need to read My last POST?? BS! I HAVE NOT LOST IT! U HAVE!! U seem to want to beat a DEAD HORSE TO DEATH!! I am WASTING VALUABLE TIME ARGUEING WITH AN IDIOT!! Now, I Like My fast-startin' converted 12V N! U obviously do not! Well, DAN, there is ROOM 4 both of us in this HOBBY! Note..I said there IS ROOM 4 BOTH SIDES! I have MY side, as U do!! So what's the beef?? U just wanna get the last post?? Well, so do I!! Because YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Dumber than Curley! (A 3-stooge, if U are too stupid to know who Curley is!) NOW LET'S DROP IT BEFORE WE START INSULTING EACH OTHER'S MOTHERS!!! 10=-4?? Now, I am gonna go outside and Use My N for what it was built 4..doing work! Unlike U, who seem s content to just let urs sit there.."looking Original"!! NUFF SED!!>!! CC

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dan hill

08-22-2006 03:26:13




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to Cargocult 4 D LAST TIME!, 08-21-2006 05:16:31  
Better join AA.



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Cargocult

08-23-2006 04:48:14




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 Re: Diodes, Resistors, and Idiots in reply to dan hill, 08-22-2006 03:26:13  
third party image

This sez it all!!



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