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9n will not start

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rlowhorn

09-20-2006 16:10:05




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I have been using this tractor for about a year. Has been working good. Have not got the alternator wired so battery must be recharged. The last time I took the battery (6V) out to charge, the tractor would not start with the recharged battery. The started would not even turn over. Nothing. I took the 6V out and put in a 12V to get a little more kick. Nothing. I took the starter off and had it checked. It was good. Any ideas? What would you do at this point? Cannot even get it to turn over.

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Andy, Oklahoma

09-23-2006 20:47:24




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to rlowhorn, 09-20-2006 16:10:05  
It sounds like the selenoid might be the culprit here or your ground is faulty. Try a different ground wire first, its the easier and cheapest to do. Make sure you use some sandpaper to clean where the ground is bolted to the tractor. This will get rid of glazing that could be affecting the ground wire.



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DanL-Colorado-9N252085

09-21-2006 17:42:52




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to rlowhorn, 09-20-2006 16:10:05  
The tractor was originally 6V, positive ground, that's why the + terminal "may" be the ground side. Depends a lot on what has been done over the years.

I get the impression that it has an alternator on it, like it was at least started toward a 12V conversion, but since you said it's not wired, I assume it's not connected to anything. That's why there's still a 6V battery in it, right?

Anyhow, are your battery cables clean and tight, both at the battery and at the other ends?

Try jumping directly to the starter stud, but like was pointed out, MAKE SURE THE TRACTOR IS IN NEUTRAL. I'd even suggest the ignition switch is turned OFF so it doesn't accidentally fire and start if it does turn. Sounds safer to me, anyway. If it does crank, you can go from there.

If not, check to make sure the starter is well grounded to the block. If the starter and/or bellhousing has been painted, maybe it's just not grounded well enough to pass that much current.

On my 46 2N, some previous owner had put a Ford starter relay in the circuit, controlled by the plunger switch. This seems like a remarkably simple way to prevent that swtich from suffering a painful death.

Anyway, let us know what you find.

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rlowhorn

09-21-2006 20:48:53




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to DanL-Colorado-9N252085 , 09-21-2006 17:42:52  
Let me start from the beginning. Around three years ago I got this tractor from my dad, after he died. It sat out in the weather for almost two years. I knew nothing of tractors in general, other than seeing my dad use them, and at times driving one. I decided to try my hand at rebuilding his tractor instead of junking it. I had a friend come ane look at it. He checked the compression on it and said it had potential. So, I started the process of trying to get it running. The first thing I did was go and get a battery. I got a 6V. The alternator was wired in some fashion to something. I cut the wire. After putting new points and plugs and plug wires and draining the oil pan and putting new oil in it and having the starter rebuilt, it started. The only other thing I had to do was to replace one of the stirring gears (do not know the terminology) which had teeth missing. It has run fine. I left the alternator unwired, not knowing how to wire it. I just found out that alternators are 12V, whcih makes me thing that I should have gotten a 12V battery. Do not know. The 6V battery, which I have been recharging with a charger, died. I put a 12V battery in to try and start it, but it will not. This is what I have done to try and start it since going with a 12V.
1. Pulled all the wiring and cleaned all connections.
2. Pulled starter and had it checked. Was told it had no problems.
3. Took the battery and straight wired to the starter. It did not turn. 4. When I hook up the battery, and push starter switch, the reaction that I get is a spark at the positive terminal of the battery. Which I have wired to the starter switch.
5. I took a voltmeter and without pushing the switch I read 12V at the connection to the battery side of the switch. When I push the switch in, it is like it is grounded and I read no voltage at the battery side connection of the switch.
6. I do not understand why the starter does not turn when wired directly to the battery using the large battery cables.

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Phil (NJ,AZ,SASK)

09-22-2006 09:27:27




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to Dell (WA), 09-21-2006 21:21:54  
4. When I hook up the battery, and push starter switch, the reaction that I get is a spark at the positive terminal of the battery. Which I have wired to the starter switch.
5. I took a voltmeter and without pushing the switch I read 12V at the connection to the battery side of the switch. When I push the switch in, it is like it is grounded and I read no voltage at the battery side connection of the switch.

Those two conditions are connected. YOU have a bad cable or Connection between the Battery +ve and the Starter Relay. Note: If you had a short in the relay (with a good cable & connection) it, the battery, would vaporize (melt) the short.

The condition you describe indicates that the Ground & Starter are OK but that you have a high resistance on the hot side. The normal voltage drop should be across the Starter. The Cable & starter relay may drop 1.5 volts (read 11 volts on starter stud). When trouble shooting voltage the problem/fault will be upsteam (towards source) from the point where the voltage is lost.

The starter draws >150 amps and both BIG cables and their connections must be good. BTW: The starter will work on 6V or 12V but the ignition will be "very" unhappy if the voltage is not correct.

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Bob

09-20-2006 21:31:12




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to rlowhorn, 09-20-2006 20:18:07  
SAFETY NOTE.

While you're troubleshooting, Be SURE the transmission is in neutral, and remains there, so you don't run over yourself, if it happens to crank suddenly, and start while you're messing with the starter and associated wiring!.


Assuming the shop knew what they were doing, and the starter is OK, either your engine is stuck, or you have a poor connection somewhere in the 3 large battery cables, since it won't crank, even when you jumper across the neutral-safety starter switch.

If you had not removed the starter, and had it checked, I would say the starter drive could be jammed against the ring gear, but since it acts the same as it did before you removed and replaced the starter, that is PROBABLY not an issue.

Connect the clip lead of a test light to one of the starter bolt heads. Touch the probe end to the BATTERY side of the starter switch. It should light, and remain lit when the starter buttom is pushed. Then, probe the STARTER side of the starter switch... does the test light light when the starter button is pushed? If so, move on to the starter, and probe the terminal stud and push the starter button... is there "juice" right to the starter? If not, it's time to "follow the Volts" as Soundguy likes to say, and figure out WHERE the current is actually getting lost, between the battery, the starter switch, and the starter.

Or, the (+) ground side, from the (+) battery post, to it's terminal, though the cable to chassis ground, though the chassis, to the starter's "frame".

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rlowhorn

09-21-2006 13:52:34




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 Re: 9n will not start in reply to Bob, 09-20-2006 21:31:12  
Why do you show the ground being (+)?



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