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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Paint Without Hardener

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RickD

10-27-2006 04:01:18




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I am thinking about painting my tractor with an enamel paint and not using a paint hardener. I don't have an air-supplied respirator to deal with dangerous isocyanates. If I don't use the hardener, am I going to be disappointed with the results/durability of my paint job? Thanks.




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Denny (WI)

10-28-2006 04:24:54




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to RickD, 10-27-2006 04:01:18  
Link

This is a web site at PPG who is a major paint suppier.It explains the hazards and saftey needed for spraying. Den



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hvw

10-27-2006 11:57:22




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to RickD, 10-27-2006 04:01:18  
This all reminded me of something. There is a district representative for one of the big paint manufacturors living in our town. He paints cars for different folks on the side and always paints outside and uses hardeners. He gets excellent results with a little color sanding. He also wears a good respirator. I think the one from 3M that cost around $20.00. I have one of those also. The last time I painted indoors I couldn't even smell the paint.

I think this is the link. You might want to look into it. It pays to be very cautious around this crap.

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Stumpalump

10-27-2006 11:35:36




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to RickD, 10-27-2006 04:01:18  
I sprayed my loader frame with Rustoleum. Per the advise here I diluted it 20% with mineral spirits and it turned out great. I used a 3M (Home Depot) respirator. It dried real hard in about a week. I've brush painted a lot of boat trailers with the same paint but after spraying I belive it's faster and it comes out better all around. It worked great for me. Hopefully you will get some warm sunny days to let it dry and you will be OK.

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RustyFarmall

10-27-2006 08:51:18




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to RickD, 10-27-2006 04:01:18  
While working for several years in a factory, I was over-exposed to many chemicals similar to the hardener, and as a result, I have absolutely no tolerance for any of that stuff, I can't even be in the house when nail polish remover is being used, but that has not stopped me from painting my tractors. I just refuse to use the hardener, and have always attained a nice, shiny gloss. The paint I use is either from Case-IH, or if I need a different color not offerd by them, I go to my farm store and get the Van-Sickle brand. Exotic paints and hardeners are not necessary.

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hvw

10-27-2006 05:05:53




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to RickD, 10-27-2006 04:01:18  
I'm struggling with that right now. I've used hardener before and learned I'm one of those that shouldn't. I was sick for a month. Using just enamel will result in a softer, less glossy finish initially and one that dulls more quickly. Periodic waxing will take care of that. The paint also needs a longer cure time, just like the old days. I painted a 3000 with hardener and it looks great. Painted my 8N without it and it also looks great. I'm sure these old tractors weren't all that glossy when they were made. But, on the other hand, if you can paint outside like Soundguy does you'd probably be alright using hardener. My $0.02 worth.

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Drmeatman

10-27-2006 05:46:55




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to hvw, 10-27-2006 05:05:53  
Rick,I just play with these Ns and yes I want them to look nice.Painting is the eye catcher and hardener seem to be + factor "but it's dangerous".I found out the hard way 2yrs. ago.My paint booth is my dogs pin with plastic wrap on 3 sides.Do it on a sunny day and "outside".Still could be dangerous.Yep I do use a good "paper" mask.This method seem to work (for the novice)but its dangerous.Need fresh air.

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Paul Schultz

10-27-2006 19:17:33




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to Drmeatman, 10-27-2006 05:46:55  
I am completely new to the tractor painting arena but can someone clarify...I am assuming the hardener is dangerous as an aerosol but with gloves would be less dangerous when painted on with a brush?

I'm thinking of painting my new-to-me rotary cutter with a brush and don't want to put myself at risk.

Thanks,

Paul.



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Dell (WA)

10-27-2006 19:55:41




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to Paul Schultz, 10-27-2006 19:17:33  
Paul..... ..you haffta add "hardner" to yer base-paint just before you spray. Your base-paint then has about 1-hr life before it sets-up. Therefore aerosol bug-bombs contain NO HARDER.

While using gloves is a good idea, its the VAPORS from SPRAY that gitts into yer lungs and causes problems. It should be intuitively obvious that brushing and rolling creates less vapors than spraying. In addition, you have to "thin" paint inorder for it to spray without orange-peal and birds-eyes.

You do NOT THIN when brush or roller painting and therefore get a thicker heavier longer lasting paint job. Spray-painting just gives a SMOOTHER SHINIER thiner coat. It is also about 50% WASTEFUL because not all spraypaint hits the target like a brush or roller.

There are GOOD BREATHING masks available to use with "hardner" paints, so don't be afraid to use hardner catalized paint..... .Dell, the 20/20 painter (looks good at 20ft or 20mph)

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Paul Schultz

10-27-2006 20:17:36




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to Dell (WA), 10-27-2006 19:55:41  
Dell,

I am aware of the differences between spraygun painting and brush painting. My question was in regard to whether the dangers of the hardener were strictly if it were in an aerosolized form (i.e., pulmonary toxicity). Since brush painting doesn't produce nearly as much 'aerosol' it would be safer to use.

My assumption is that like with many synthetic paint additives that become aerosolized you have the possibility of the fine mist being inhaled and basically painting the inside of your lungs. Once this happens many of these chemicals can remain in the lungs for years causing a chronic inflamatory change...which leads to further irreversible impairment down the road.

The other alternative is that the hardener is a solvent that is absorbed through the lungs and becomes toxic within the body (typically damaging the liver). In this case, a solvent mask would be needed. And, there would be little significant difference between using a spraygun vs. a paint brush.

Paul.

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Dell (WA)

10-27-2006 20:30:49




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 Re: Paint Without Hardener in reply to Paul Schultz, 10-27-2006 20:17:36  
Paul..... .I believe you've answered your own question.

You write..... ."My assumption is that like with many synthetic paint additives that become aerosolized you have the possibility of the fine mist being inhaled and basically painting the inside of your lungs. Once this happens many of these chemicals can remain in the lungs for years causing a chronic inflamatory change...which leads to further irreversible impairment down the road."..... ..yep, thats what happens.

My answer to you was..... ."There are GOOD BREATHING masks available to use with "hardner" paints, so don't be afraid to use hardner catalized paint..... .Dell, the 20/20 painter (looks good at 20ft or 20mph)

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