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health/paint question

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ron,ar

10-27-2006 17:41:34




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I noticed the posts about the paint with/without hardner. Exactly what is it about the hardner that gives problems and do you mind telling me what the symptoms are? Thanks guys.




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hvw

10-28-2006 06:59:50




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
I'm one of those that are sensitive to hardeners. I painted a 3000 using automotive quality paint and hardener. The results were great but came at a big price. My symptoms came on the next day and were relatively easy to diagnose. I couldn't breath. I thought for sure I was dying. I swore I'd never do it again but eventually did. This time though I used a good 3M mask. Couldn't even smell the paint. The problem is that the iso's can get into your body through the skin as well as by breathing so you need a body suit. If you have to use it do like Soundguy says and do it outside. Still use a good mask though. They're cheap. The benefits of hardner will be obvious after you use it and color sanding will get rid of almost every imperfection in the paint anyway. Even autopainters have to color sand sometimes. The high end auotomotive quality paints and hardners seem to be the most potent. The big problem is that all of us want a good shiny paint job but can't afford a professional job which can run into the thousands.

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Henry M

10-28-2006 06:18:26




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
As I recall ya gotta watch the "good" two part etching primers, they may have the killer stuff in them also.



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K.LaRue-VA

10-27-2006 22:41:13




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
I decided not to use the hardner for the obvious reasons and I am happy with the results. Paint looks ok to me. If you are going for show quality on a trailer queen, maybe hardeners make sense but then maybe you should be going to a shop that has the proper ventilation and filters? Idonno. I just try to paint stuff when I have a good chance of plenty of sunshine so it can dry.



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souNdguy

10-27-2006 22:06:36




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
Read the hardner can.. look for the compound that starts with -ISO-

It's those compounds that cause the bulk of the issues. In general, they are bad for all.. however.. some people are especially sensitive to them... I've hear dof non sensitive peopl epaint with them for years with no noticable effects.. and sensitive peopl ehave a near death reaction minutes into painting.

Different hardners have different amounts. You can do air quality testing, or you can get a SC breathing device.

If you don't have SC breathing.. then i sugest you paint outside, in a slight breeze, upwind from the gun, AND use the best organic vapor cartridge you can find.. AND if you notice anything funny.. stop immediatly.

I use BPS paint and valspar hardner. It appears thatt he iso content inthat hardner -may- be lower than some others. However the info on thier MSDS do not appear to be completely accurate.. or at least they are vauge.

Be safe.. either get SC breather.. or paint in open air in slight breeze upwind of gun.. so that you are not getting exposed.. etc.

Soundguy

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Carl S in NH

10-28-2006 04:23:39




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to souNdguy, 10-27-2006 22:06:36  
After reading many posts about the dangers of using hardeners in paint, I decided they weren't for me. Your health is too important to take a chance with, just for a slightly better looking paint job. Most folks can't afford all the fancy equipment you need to do it safely any way. After just reading ron ar's post about his health problems which began after using hardener, I am more convinced than ever. Goes right in there with trying to pull stumps from your top link, or bush hogging sideways on a 25% slope - Don't !

I'd suggest that if having a perfect paint job is THAT important to someone, that they pay a professional to do it. Or bite the bullet and buy that self-contained breather mask AND paint outdoors!

Carl
PS: rant not directed at any one in specific. I just get a little wound up about health & safety issues!

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Stumpalump

10-27-2006 19:51:01




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
Ron,
I just called one of my old buddys in Arkansas who is a great body and paint man. I read him your post and he said some folks it messes up bad and outher folks breath it without much problems. He said long term it gives you a broncitis type illness. When I studied the paint forum on this website a ways back I read enough to steer clear. Your handle is ron ar and if you are near Little Rock this guy does side jobs dirt cheep.He will even let you help. Email me and I'll give you his name and number and you won't have to breath that poision.

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ron,ar

10-27-2006 20:15:03




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 too late in reply to Stumpalump, 10-27-2006 19:51:01  
I have already finished painting my tractor and trailer. I do live near Little Rock, about 30 miles south in Sheridan Ar. The main reason I asked was just grasping at straws I guess. I have had problems with shortness of breath since aound 1st of July. Can't walk a quarter of mile without being in pain and no breath. I have had a cardiologist run tests (heart cath, MRI, CT Scan, and cardiolyte stress test) and they have all been ok. I had a triple bypass 10 yrs ago and 2 stents put in in 2001. But the docs have given my heart and CV system a clean bill. I did all that painting in late June in an enclosed space, my first dealing with hardner also. My problems all showed up in the last 3 months. I read the posts here and it started me to thinking. Anyway, thanks for the reply, but my painting is over at any rate.

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Stumpalump

10-28-2006 10:22:01




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 Re: too late in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 20:15:03  
You are swarming with deer hunters about now in Sherian. Fine place! Sounds like ISO's got you.
My paint and body buddys also told me last night that his 43 year old bride has stage 4 cancer. He sprays all the time at his home shop. Most happy go lucky energetic 350lb women I ever met. Dave said with 8 months to live she's as happy go lucky as ever.God help them and you too. Glad you haven't been playing with that stuff too long.

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Drmeatman

10-27-2006 18:27:49




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to ron,ar, 10-27-2006 17:41:34  
Ron, I don't have a can in front of me but someone will be along soon that cantalk from a chemical point but under the right & extreme conditions the stuff will "kill"you.I used the wrong filter mask and it trapped the spray inside and in about 4hr. I was in the hospital.Two years now and I still have problems breathing.Caugh strange looking "stuff. I've never smoked and (69)so can't blame that.I still paint but it's outside now !BE CAREFUL !

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DonCam

10-28-2006 02:42:00




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to Drmeatman, 10-27-2006 18:27:49  
Isocynates are one of the nasty chemicals. It's the same type of stuff that was realeased in Bhopal India and killed so many of those folks, it's also used in 7Dust if I'm not mistaken. Not all hardeners have it but most hardners do have some form of nasty chemical that can cause harm, MDA is another nasty chemical. Isocynates require a fresh air positive pressure mask to paint safely with. I didn't use that and lucklily haven't had any problems, but you never know your reaction.....

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Dan Hill

10-29-2006 02:55:19




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 Re: health/paint question in reply to DonCam, 10-28-2006 02:42:00  
I see no good reason for fancy paint jobs on tractors.Breathing problems are bad news.Epoxy compounds are bad news,some people get sensitized so badly that they cant work with the stuff.The poly glues have warnings about breathing problems on the label.I note that bodymen and floor tile workers often have problems with hot solvents.I have breathing problems from years of farming and wood working dust.The dust gets thru the masks.Blow your nose on a white cloth after a long session painting or sanding as see the stuff that gets thru.Sanding dry wall compound,drilling concrete and clay tile produce a lot of dust.Old tractor paints have lead content,sanding these will give you lead poisoning.Many paint strippers contain menthyl chloride = CANCER.

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