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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you think

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lonestarjeff

11-04-2006 09:35:43




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I was just reading an article last night about this subject. This article was about 15 years old, so factor that in.

BEFCO has(or had)a 42" rototiller model in their lineup which has reversible drive sprockets. They have 3 models(standard, medium, & heavy duty)in each size. At the time of the article the heavy duty one had the reversible sprockets. Looking at the website today, it appears the T40 models all have that feature.

With the sprockets reversed the pto to tyne turn ratio is about 1.00 to 0.75. If you have a Sherman(or other)stepdown transmission to slow the tractor down, that would still give you a good speed on the tiller.

The article did not recommend going any wider than the 42" model, though, or likely overload the N. That width also required offsetting the tiller to one side so you cover one wheel track.

So, what do you think? Any of you guys have a BEFCO or tried one? Maybe other brands have the reversible sprockets too?


Jeff

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BillM (OH)

11-06-2006 07:50:01




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
I believe Hudson makes a PTO speed increaser box, which when used with a Sherman step down MIGHT work with a tiller on an 8N - if it's go enuf power. That said, I have not tried it, because I don't see a need to retire my plow,disc or spring tooth harrow.



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Ultradog MN

11-04-2006 19:59:58




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 Thinking outside of the box in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
I know this will seem heretical on this board.
If you Hafta have a rototiller then buy a tractor that will run a rototiller.
As has been said here many times a good 3 cylinder ford 2000 or 3000 with the 8 sp and lpto will run a rototiller like a dream.
When you figure the cost of your N plus some adapted scheme like a Howard which is very expensive if you could find one, or as has been mentioned adapting a second infernal combustion engine just to run the tiller you are very close to the price of a real nice Blue Ford that will do everything an N will do plus several things it wont.
Don't get me wrong. I love these Ns but they are NOT the final word in farming.
That said, I really don't see what a tiller will do that a good N with a 1-16" plow and a 6" disc wont do.
If you NEED a tiller then buy a tractor that will run one.

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Sean (TX)

11-04-2006 16:20:16




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
I wonder how Marvin Baumann's four trans would work with a tiller? No contact info I could find on his website. Is he a member here? Cool tractor and slow at (12 inches) per hour in the lowest gear.

third party image



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Pooh Bear

11-04-2006 15:41:55




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
I think I figured out how to use a tiller with an N tractor.
This should be good for small family size gardens.
I haven't tested it. I would if I had a tiller.
Thinking about renting one somewhere to try it.

Put the tiller on the N and put the N in neutral.
Park a truck with a winch on it in front of the N.
Use the winch cable to pull the tractor along
while the N drives the tiller. Sounds good to me.

I use a bottom plow on our garden every year.
Then go back with the Troybuilt tiller.
But I'm lousy at plowing so it is hard to till.
Someone modified this plow so it can't be set up right.
So I plow a row, then instead of putting the tires
in that furrow, I have to drive next to it.
Gives me a furrow and a hump, a furrow and a hump.
That gets hard to till with a walk behind tiller.

I was thinking I could plow the garden,
then use a tiller on it. After it's plowed it
might be broke up enough to use a tiller without a winch.

Our garden is barely big enough to get the 8N in it.
It's about 30 x 20 and it gets smaller every year.

Pooh Bear

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Notminiacres

11-04-2006 14:48:43




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
Been reading all these posts, and decided to say something about a tiller for a 8N. Way back in the 70's I borrowed an 8N with an off set tiller and it worked GREAT. I just don't see what the deal is about speed having to be so slow. I ran that one in 1st gear with no problem. Wish I knew what the model of the tiller was, but, have seen other now that look just like it. I do remember having to use the brakes in a hard spot. This was a five foot tiller also that I was using and it dug her almost a foot deep. Just my opionion! Thanks to all that read and listened OR LAUGHED! But TRUE!

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135 Fan

11-04-2006 16:13:18




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Notminiacres, 11-04-2006 14:48:43  
A tiller will push the tractor if it is geared too high for the conditions and too light of tractor. Tillers only go about 7 inches deep. It looks like more after the soil is fluffed up. A 60 inch on an 8N is asking for trouble. Maybe the 42 inch could be tried out first? Dave



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135 Fan

11-04-2006 12:46:03




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
The reversing sprockets are a sort of a copy of the original Howard selecta-tilth. It is common along with gear change levers on heavy duty tillers. All it does is change the rotor speed for different size tilth. I used to have a guide on getting the most out of your rotovator. In most cases a courser tilth is better. For chopping up heavy weeds it said to leave the rear cover up as well and go in a higher gear if you have enough power. It also said tilled ground should be deep cultivated every 5 years or so. I guess you want it for a garden? After the garden is tilled really well it might work. If you had a live pto would help but you don't. In heavy tilling they usually recommend 10 hp per foot. Even if you put the rotor to the fastest speed your tractor is still probably to fast to have sufficient power. The rotor speed only changes from around 170 rpm to 220 rpm or so. Hope this helps you decide. Dave

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Henry M

11-04-2006 12:26:06




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
John Smith was so kind to send me a chart on the speeds with the combination Sherman. Good stuff for me since I have one in the barn.

Anyhow the chart says that at full throttle will get the pto to 545 rpm and the ground speed to 2.77 mph with the sherman in low and the 8N in 1st.

Isn't that too fast. I am still gonna use my front time 5 hp model on my garden that provides for two seniors lol.

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Bob

11-04-2006 12:34:05




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Henry M, 11-04-2006 12:26:06  
Whether or not you have a SHERMAN, AHEAD of the main transmission, the gear ratio between the PTO, and the rear wheels, with the main transmission in "low" will always remain the same.



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Russ SoCal

11-04-2006 12:17:36




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
Jeff,
I'm sure there is a combination of tiller and gearing on the tractor that's a bit better than another setup. It still doesn't overcome the basic problem with tillers and that's the fact they take a certain amount of time to dig in and pulverize the soil. (Which ain't always a good thing in itself.)
Whether it's a tiller head on a string trimmer, a Monkey Ward front tine, a Troy built rear tine or an N with a Mitsuyota, unless you can keep the tines in place long enough to dig, it's gonna skip, bounce and be in the neighbor's field before it does any good.
Short of a second mortgage to finance a Howard or engineering 14 inch tires for the rear, I hope someone does come up with a solution. Until then, I guess using the disc harrow and 11 passes with a tiller, ("That's OK, honey. I'll do all this work for your garden. I don't mind... er, I'll suffer through... all this time on the tractor.) will be as close as I get.
Russ

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Bob

11-04-2006 12:31:15




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Russ SoCal, 11-04-2006 12:17:36  
Briggs and Kohler make compact V-twin engines that put out 25HP or more.

It shouldn't be too hard to mount one of those to a 3-point tiller.

Then, you could idle along the tractor, taking advantage of it's lift, with the tiller operating at the correct speed all the time, with LIVE power.

Years ago, Cub Cadet and Sears, and I'm sure others, had the tillers for their garden tractors set up that way. Same thing, smaller scale!

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Russ SoCal

11-04-2006 14:42:56




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Bob, 11-04-2006 12:31:15  
Interesting concept, Bob. 800 rpm on the tractor gives about 1.5 mph. A heavy enough tiller might be effective at that speed. There's a few OHV's around here I'd like to bag for a tryout. What hp engines do them destructive blankety-blanks have?
Russ



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Bob

11-05-2006 21:00:45




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Russ SoCal, 11-04-2006 14:42:56  
Russ,

I am not sure what you are asking "What hp engines do them destructive blankety-blanks have?"... do you mean the self-powered Sears or Cub tillers?



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Bob

11-05-2006 21:24:20




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Bob, 11-05-2006 21:00:45  
Here's a link to the real old Cub Cadet self-powered tillers, in .pdf format. Look at the old beasts on page 4.



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duey

11-04-2006 10:13:06




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
The universal concensus is that the Ns are just too fast for a rototiller. Perhaps you can get get one of these marvels and provide a first hand report.....

You could power a 5 foot tiller with a small block V-8 and say "*MY* N pulls a tiller just fine...what's the problem..."

Satisfy yourself, what does it matter what the group thinks?? duey



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JerryCPP(WA)

11-04-2006 10:05:50




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 09:35:43  
It's not the rototiller that can cause probems. If you don't have something like a Howard reduction gear in your tractor, the ground speed will be too fast for the tiller to do a good job. If you do find a reduction gear for your tractor, be sure it reduces ground speed only. Some of them also reduce PTO speed, and that defeats the purpose. Good Luck! I'm sure you'll get many replies as to what to look for.

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lonestarjeff

11-04-2006 10:54:15




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to JerryCPP(WA), 11-04-2006 10:05:50  
Jerry...I understand how the pre-tranny boxes(like the Shermans)slow down the pto, which in turn slows down the tiller rpm making the "till" effect less than desirable.

On top of this most tillers further step down rpm thru their own gearbox, sprockets, etc.

What got my attention in this article is how this model of rototiller will allow you to step up the tyne rpm(by reversing the spockets). In other words you can have a fast tiller rpm even when you have a relatively low pto rpm.

Jeff

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Cargocult

11-04-2006 11:11:32




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to lonestarjeff, 11-04-2006 10:54:15  
I am sure that if us "N" Geniuses set our collective minds to it, there orta be a speed increaser that one could install in the PTO shaft line to speed the tines up. This would allow the tiller to be used on these Nice N tractors at a reasonable cost. Maybe a perusal of the industrial gear box suppliers on the net would be a good thing 2 do. I personally don't have a roto-tiller 4 my tractor, because of this very problem. I would definitely be in the market 4 one if there was cheap simple way to use it. I am sure there are several of us becasuse this issue crops up with astonishing regularity! Maybe somethin 4 da GREAT ZANE 2 turn his inventive mind 2?? Just a thought..CC

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Notminiacres

11-04-2006 16:36:39




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Cargocult , 11-04-2006 11:11:32  
I understand all of y'all's thinking on the speed and the tiller. As I stated I borrowed one from a friend that was on an 8N and forgot to say he was in the landscaping business,and continued doing gardens with it for at least five years after I borrowed it. As one person stated they dig about seven inches deep(looked deeper to me!)and his did a GREAT job. No more to say but think y'all are worring to much about speed and pto's.If I ever see a 4-5 foot one for sale that's reasonably priced, she will be going on my 8N and won't be worried that it won't work out AT ALL!After all guys, It's a 8N FORD, not a Craftsman lawn tractor! LOL!

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FarmerDawn

11-04-2006 12:43:07




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 Re: Found a rototiller for the N.....what do you t in reply to Cargocult , 11-04-2006 11:11:32  
OK, I'm in on this deal, too!!! If one of you figures out how to make it, I'll beta-test it. :-)

(I get a free one to try out if I volunteer to do that, right? LOL)

Dawn, who would probably drive it right through a fence or something...



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Russ SoCal

11-04-2006 12:22:25




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 Geniasses??? NT in reply to Cargocult , 11-04-2006 11:11:32  



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