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8N starting issues - solenoid?

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2horses

11-21-2006 07:38:19




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1949 8N, recently converted to 12V, all was fine until yesterday when tried to start and starter kicked with one push (didn't turn over), but second push of starter switch just got a click. Changed solenoid and reconnected exactly the same (6V solenoid and starter), only now when I connect to battery, it immediately kicks the starter - w/out pushing the button! Like it's completing its own circuit? Anyone have any ideas?

Wiring to solenoid is: BATT terminal has neg battery cable, ammeter cable, and one side of starter switch; IG post has the other side of starter switch, and then the third post connects straight to starter via copper strip

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2horses

11-22-2006 08:40:12




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 07:38:19  
I'm no dufus (why the name calling?), and will happily explain the problem and the fix....

Turns out that the solenoid I was replacing was not OEM, and was actually a 12V. Problem number one. Then, after getting the correct 12V solenoid, still had a problem with it trying to turn over, but this time only when the switch leads were attached first and then connect negative battery cable back to battery. Solved problem by attaching negative cable first, then attaching switch wires. Viola'! Mable now runs like the champ she is, and turns over at the breath of a push on the switch.

It was an odd electrical issue, and a case of just not quite enough knowledge of the part I was replacing - it looked old, so just "assumed" (yeah, I know) it was original. Especially since it was part of the original 6V system. Who knew? Still not sure why it had to be reconnected in a certain order, but hey - at least she's back!

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jimmy limmer

11-21-2006 17:38:19




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 07:38:19  
Had a simular problem with my 1945 2n. Trouble shot my behind off. Lights worked. had power to the starter. But still not turning over. Took starter off and "bench tested" it. Spun like a champ. Hmmmm. Put it back on then looked at the wiring some more. Turned out that the ground wire to the battery had corroded it's connection to the dash panel just enough to knock out the starter but the headlight wire terminal on top of it still made a circuit. Cleaned that connection and "Little Gray" roared to life again. Gotta love it. Good luck!!! J.L.

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2horses

11-21-2006 10:58:54




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 07:38:19  
Have now installed the second solenoid, and it does the same thing. Further troubleshooting shows that with nothing but the pos battery cable on the battery post, and the copper strip connected to the other post, when the neg cable is touched to the neg post on the battery, it arcs and tried to start. So the starter switch is completely out of the picture, and nothing but the battery and the starter are involved – thus another bad solenoid? How many of these do I have to go through? Or is the problem something else entirely?

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don b

11-21-2006 12:11:04




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 10:58:54  
2HORSES....take it back and find a solenoid that is not made by TISCO.They had a bad batch and I'm pretty sure the ones at TSC come from Tisco.OR take your meter with you and check them at the store.Better still, use their meter or let them check it. don b



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RustyAL

11-21-2006 08:31:24




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 07:38:19  
Yep, you got a bad solenoid. Take it back and try another.



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Bob

11-21-2006 08:01:06




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to 2horses, 11-21-2006 07:38:19  
It would appear someone has installed a non-standard starter switch, NOT GOOD, as the neutral start safety feature would be lost.

The small terminal on the correct OEM-type solenoid would be connected to the the single terminal on the tranny-top safety starter switch.

Did you get the correct starter solenoid for this application, or a "generic Ford fender-mount solenoid" from an auto supply?

These solenoids get confusing, 'cause they take a generic case, marked "I" (ignition) and "S" (start), and for certain applications, the internal connections change, without the markings molded into the case being changed along with the oldball inards of the solenoid.

If you have the typical "generic Ford fender-mount solenoid, and a non-standard starter switch, the lead from the switch would connect to the "S" terminal. The "I" (IG) terminal is used to bypass the ballast resistor during cranking, on units set up to make use of that feature.

There is still another type of solenoid, called a "four-terminal isolated base solenoid" where the two leads from the solenoid coil are brought out on the "I" and "R" posts, requiring still another wiring diagram.

So, what is the make and part # of the solenoid you used as a replacement?

(All that being said, there have been a number of reports on here about new-out-of the-box solenoids being defective, and always "ON".)

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dan hill

11-22-2006 03:55:09




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to Bob, 11-21-2006 08:01:06  
Ill bet that Dufus is using a hot lead on a terminal that should be grounded to crank.Their cant be that many new ng solenoids out there.



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2horses

11-21-2006 08:31:43




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 Re: 8N starting issues - solenoid? in reply to Bob, 11-21-2006 08:01:06  
Let me clarify my previous post – the POS side of the battery is attached to the solenoid, not the neg. The negative lead was removed from the battery when changing the solenoid out for safety’s sake – when IT is re-attached, that’s when the starter kicks. Sorry if I made it confusing.

The solenoid I purchased was from Tractor Supply, part number 0236766, and the application information says it’s a “Relay-6 volt-3 post, 8N 1948 – 1952.” I’m encouraged to hear that some are bad out of the box, because I’m beginning to suspect that’s the case here. I’m off to TSC to exchange it, and will see if that’s the problem.

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