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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Is this block salvagable? (PIC)

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Ray Wilson

12-02-2006 08:56:51




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Folks,
Looking at the attached picture, do you think this block is salvagable - could a competent welder stitch this up? The crack is just 'behind' the boss where the serial number is stamped. The block is a 1950 sidemount 8N, serial number 314636. By the way, the block has been modifed for the cast iron 90-thousands sleeves. The machinist that performed that task did a superb job.

Best regards,
Ray Wilson

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marv bailey

04-25-2007 06:15:15




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
I READ ALL THE POSTS. ONE THING YOU HAVE TO ASK IS IS WHY SOMEONE WOULD GET RID OF THIS BLOCK
IF IS WASNT CAUSING A PROBLEM. I AM SURE MANY PEOPLE OUT WOULD WANT THIS BLOCK IF IT WAS FIXABLE. HEAT IS YOUR ONLY PROBLEM. WHEN CAST IRON HEATS UP THE STRESS FROM THE BOLT THREAD WILL OPENTHE CRACK EVEN MORE. I WOULD TAKE IT TO
A EXPERT WELDER THAT DOES THIS BEFORE I PUT A BUNCH OF MONEY IN A BLOCK THAT PROBABLY WAS TAKEN OUT BECAUSE OF A PROBLEM.
THAT MY 2 CENTS.

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Jetman8N

12-02-2006 19:02:24




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
I'd do as Zane said. Drill four holes and insert bolts to hold the crack. Fill the crack with JB weld to keep moisture out. You can grind the heads off the bolts after you insert them flush with the surface. Should work a long time.



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Dunk....Drunk

12-02-2006 16:02:53




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
I am going to give you my .02 worth, by gosh!!

Naw I will just ask the question...

Is there any reason that one couldn't take a torch and put a good coat of brazing on that and have it surfaced, or file it down?

And forgit there ever was a problem??

Well that is what I thank I would do.



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ZANE

12-02-2006 10:01:38




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
If it were mine I would drill and tap about four 1/4" holes in the block about 1/4 inch below the deck using a depth stop on the drill to prevent going into the water jacket behind the sleeve. Then I would use a slightly larger bit with a depth stop and drill out the threads to the crack. Then I would torque the bolts snug and repeat at not more than about 15# torque until non of them would move. Put the head on it and let your grand kids worry about it later! :O)_

Zane

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Hobo,NC

12-02-2006 09:49:26




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
I have a Farmall 123” block that’s cracked just like that but worst. It never lost a drop of water fer as I know. I did not reuse it but did not throw it away either. Iffin I had not had a donor block I would of reused it. That izz a good candidate fer the stitch repair operation.

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hvw

12-02-2006 09:35:41




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
I'm a novice at stuff like this so what I'm about to say may be stupid. And since I haven't said anything completely stupid for a while I'll go ahead. If the block was not leaking before can you not drill on each end to stop it from spreading, then fill the crack with JB weld and sand it smooth?



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RP-40-9n

12-02-2006 09:18:12




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 Re: Is this block salvagable? (PIC) in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
i think it can be saved. i would take these pics. to two or three good engine builders, and i would go with the one who seems most confident and sure of his ability. RP



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Ray WIlson

12-02-2006 08:57:43




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 Another Picture... in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 08:56:51  
third party image



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Larry 8N75381

12-02-2006 09:22:30




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Ray WIlson, 12-02-2006 08:57:43  
I think this may come under the catagory of "if it an"t broke, DON"T fix it!" What I see is a water jacket crack that does not go into the threaded holes, typical of a lot of blocks still running that were in WORSE shape, from the water freezing once.

Question I would want to know. Did it leak coolant befor you opened it up? It would appear that if you had a GOOD head gasket seal, that that crack would not leak coolant out of the water jacket.

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Ray Wilson

12-02-2006 09:49:51




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Larry 8N75381, 12-02-2006 09:22:30  
Larry,

A better explanation from me is required. I purchased the block off eBay from a seller that clearly stated they did not know the status of the block, and had purchased it from an estate. They ran an antiques store, bought the estate for the antiques, and sold the block as-is. I paid a fair price, considering. I knew it could have issues, and bid accordingly. So, to answer your question, I don't know for sure if it was leaking into the combustion chamber, but I think it was. There are pock marks around the valves of the nearest cylinder to the crack. So I suspect, the head gasket wasn't holding back the water.

Best regards,

Ray

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Larry 8N75381

12-02-2006 15:47:55




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 09:49:51  
You said,"There are pock marks around the valves of the nearest cylinder to the crack. So I suspect, the head gasket wasn"t holding back the water." BUT, it would seem to me that water from that crack would either have gone into the cylinder or out the side. So if there are water corrosion pits in/by the valves, that could be from the water passages nearer to the valves - also from a bad head gasket.

So how is the block, otherwise??

It took me a careful reading of what Zane posted to realize he was essentially making a clamp that would pull the crack closed to seal it, then use the block like that. Another way of saying, it is not much to worry about. You might not want to try the machining required. So JB weld might work just as well. The crack does not structurally compromise the block, it just is a potential water leak that you should be able to seal effectively.

In the location that it is, I do not think I would mess with trying to drill a hole at the end of the crack. The idea is to stop the crack from spreading, but it is not clear to me that you can be sure of exactly where the end is. Also it could be the end of the crack is angled so that the end inside is way under the top where it looks OK. If this were in the outside water jacket, it probably would not be angled.

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Ray Wilson

12-02-2006 18:34:40




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Larry 8N75381, 12-02-2006 15:47:55  
Larry,

The block is in great shape, otherwise. I think the block is compromised by the crack; the two nearest threaded holes for the head bolts are going to have lots of tension on them, and half their support is adrift, or unsupported because of the crack. (especially, the nearest threaded hole in the picture) By the way, only after looking at the photograph did I see the other crack between the furthest two water jacket holes (towards the top of the picture)

Here are a couple more pictures:

third party image

third party image

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Larry 8N75381

12-03-2006 16:55:06




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 18:34:40  
I don"t know if you will see this but,

I do not see any problem with the strength of the material still available to hold the two head bolts. The one is very close to the cylinder wall, and that is where the strength will be, the other is even better, father away from the crack, AND between two cylinders where there are both walls for support.

I have my BS in Mechanical Engr., if that will make you feel better about my advice/analysis.

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geral springer

12-02-2006 10:16:04




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to Ray Wilson, 12-02-2006 09:49:51  
what is that hole where crack end that look like a easy fix



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Ray Wilson

12-02-2006 18:39:37




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 Re: Another Picture... in reply to geral springer, 12-02-2006 10:16:04  
Geral,

That is a water jacket hole - thankfully not a headbolt threaded hole.

Ray



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