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Wow ! Information Overload.

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J.P. Southern I

12-05-2006 12:18:32

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Talk about some information....these forums have it. So much, I am confused. I am the recent purchaser of a fine 19?? 9N tractor. Yea me!
Anyway, the guy I got it from said it had been converted to a 12V system. But it didn't charge and he seemed to be blowing a lot of coils. Hmmmm. I do not know which coil it has, 12v or 6v, (it is a front mount square coil), but I do know it has NO resistors anywhere. Terminal block seems to be missing. It has a Delco-Remy alt but i do not know if it is internally regulated or no. 1 post,2 terminal labeled with letters, not numbers. It has an external regulator on it but I do not know if they were trying to use it or not. I have my work cut out for me. I have printed just about every diagram for the conversion i can find on the web and it doesn't seem any 2 are alike. Most make sense but i do not understand the diode getting connected to the alternator, nor am i sure why the original 6 volt system had a resistor to begin with. I see many posts in my future. I guess 395 post with "12 Volt conversion" isn't enough for me..... ..I will get this thing running. It seems to be in decent shape. I also can not figure out the Hi Low system in it. I think it is a Sherman hi-low, the handle doesn't seem to look right though. It comes out where the hi low does in the pics I've seen, but it isn't bent exactly the same, it also has 3 settings(front middle back) It doesn't seem to have an "over and back" selection like one of the Sherman's did. i am confused on this as well.
I can't wait to bush-hog my first field....
Thanks guys.

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AM-Seb

12-06-2006 14:43:13

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Russ SoCal reply to J.P. Southern Indiana in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

Saw your photo of the raised ID numbers "made to look like a screwed on plate." Mine-under a lot of paint-does look like a plate and has what look like tiny rivets at the ends. It reads: N (space)J(space)198. Also have the raised 1948 and D below. I can understand day 19 and year 1948, but is the month October and N superfluous?Any idea, Russ? Thanks in advance. Angelo

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JP in Southern Indiana

12-06-2006 06:11:04

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Thanks All in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

Thanks to all. This info will help me get'er going.

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Bruce (VA)

12-05-2006 15:32:08

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

Congrats! You will have a good time with it. I think other folks have answered your basic questions; you might find these links helpful:

Link

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jp in southern Indiana

12-06-2006 06:03:15

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to Bruce (VA), 12-05-2006 15:32:08

Great sites, thanks.

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Bob

12-05-2006 14:40:54

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

Here is a drawing of a 10DN Delco alternator, that REQUIRES an external regulator:

Third Party Image

Here's a photo of an INTERNALLY REGULATED "10SI" Delco alternator:

Third Party Image

Notice the "1" and "2" labels.

The terminals are also marked "F" and "R", as a carryover from the VERY EARLY versions of this alternator in which the regulator was omitted, and an external regulator the same as the one used with a 10DN was used.

"10-SI-style" alternators WITH the internal regulator will have the two terminals arranged " - -".

"10-SI-style" alternators WITHOUT the internal regulator will have the terminals arranged "I I".

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JP in Indiana

12-05-2006 15:58:49

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to Bob, 12-05-2006 14:40:54

Yep. I think I have the DN. I checked at a parts place. They have Alts for things like this. It even has a larger than normal pulley. The price is sorta steep though. 49 plus trade in. It is suppose to be a one wire job. i wonder if you hook the one wire up like a 3 wire, if it will charge at the lower RPM's. I think I read someplace that it would.

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Bob

12-05-2006 16:21:21

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to JP in Indiana, 12-05-2006 15:58:49

What you want is a SMALL, but EXTRA WIDE pulley.

Some "one-wire" units WILL function as "3-wire" units, when the extra terminals are used.

If you get a 3-wire alternator, it shouldn't be too tough to find a WIDE pulley for it.

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Carl S in NH

12-05-2006 14:07:16

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Re: your Sherman in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

If your Sherman shifter lever isn't bent like a dog's leg like in this picture then it probably isn't the hi lo combo Sherman. I believe each of the other types (high only and low only)have 3 positions, which would be regular gears, neutral, and high (or low, if you have the low only). The combo Sherman would actually have 4 positions then. Assuming you are in the regular set of gears to begin with, then moving the shifter towards the front of the engine to the neutral position and then pulling the lever OUTWARD from the engine and then either toward you or toward the engine will get you into the high and low ranges.
John Smith's site has an excellent discussion of the various Sherman types and includes pictures of the shifter levers. Clicking on the picture of the Sherman brochure will also show you the shifting pattern for that Sherman.
Just click the link below.

Carl

Smith's Sherman page

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K.LaRue-VA

12-05-2006 18:19:31

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Re: your Sherman in reply to Carl S in NH, 12-05-2006 14:07:16

Actually my sherman combo works basackwards from what you described. From neutral, I have to move the lever IN, to the right, towards the tractor to get to the high and low ranges. For direct drive with the original gears, I move the lever out and back from neutral.

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jimNCal

12-05-2006 18:52:09

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Re: your Sherman in reply to K.LaRue-VA, 12-05-2006 18:19:31

You are correct. Carl has it backwards.

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Carl S in NH

12-06-2006 04:29:50

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Re: your Sherman in reply to jimNCal, 12-05-2006 18:52:09

I guess I will have to plead faulty memory on this one then, since I HAVE a Sherman combo... lol

Carl

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jimNCal

12-06-2006 06:11:37

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Re: your Sherman in reply to Carl S in NH, 12-06-2006 04:29:50

lol. Well, I work on them all the time so that shift pattern is something I'll remember even after I'm room temperature. Matter of fact, until I learned a couple of 'trade secrets' about how to adjust the rails after repairing/replacing shift forks, I CUSSED that shift pattern a time or 3. lol

jim

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GB inMT.

12-05-2006 12:56:44

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

JP, The first thing you need to do is: Find out what Mod of N series do you have. If you look on the left side of the engine block, you will find a # that starts with 9N or 8N. Write down the # and post it here. I can then tell you what year and mod. you have. Next thing you need is a good manual for these tractors, and you will find that a world of info. and ??? you have will be answered. Post that block # back to me. I'll be waiting!! GB

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JP In Ind.

12-05-2006 13:56:39

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to GB inMT., 12-05-2006 12:56:44

GB, I have the maint. manual for users and mechs. I must say, not too informative. I also have tried to get the serial number off the block. I can't read it. I have tried several different angles. I have not tried paper and pencil rub though. Does that ever work?

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GB in MT.

12-05-2006 14:08:03

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to JP In Ind., 12-05-2006 13:56:39

My father-in-law swears by the paper/pencil trick. I've seen it work, but don't rub hard. The manual that I use and seems to be the recommended one on this site, is:I&T shop service #FO4. Don't get one of the cheapo's like I did when I first started. I threw that away and bought the recommended one. If you can get that # you'll be farther along. Sounds to me like you've run into some-one that did not know how to convert to 12v. You can either post the block # or E-mail me. Hope this helps. GB

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JP in southern indiana

12-05-2006 16:39:45

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to GB in MT., 12-05-2006 14:08:03

I tried the paper/pencil. No good. Looks like chicken scratches. I think paint is in the recesses. At least I am hoping the numbers are recessed and not raised. They are stamped, aren't they?

Anyone know why or where my pushbutton for the starter should go? I do not have one, or a place where one looks like it should go. So I would say i probably do not have a safety interlock huh?

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Russ SoCal

12-05-2006 17:23:41

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to JP in southern indiana, 12-05-2006 16:39:45

JP,
Right around the corner from where the starter bolts on is a cast in area made to look like a screwed on plate. On mine it says "B128" which translates as B=February, A=January, C=March, etc. "12" is the day of the month the block was cast and the "8" is the last digit of the year. So my block was cast February 12, 1948 and probably left the factory 2 or 3 weeks after that. HTH
Russ
third party image

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8N'r

12-05-2006 12:53:44

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 12:18:32

J.P.---congrats on your new tractor----I will let the electrical xperts chime in on your electrical problem, but it sounds to me that your HI-LO Sherman is actually a Sherman Combo, giving you a total of 9 Forward and 3 Reverse gears. When you get the shifter in the "middle" position, try wiggling it and pulling outward, then push it forward again---for a diagram of how the combo looks, works, go to The Smiths website listed below. My brother in law owned an 8N for 27 years before he found out about the xtra gears he had with his shifter!!! Have some good safe fun with your N and welcome to the forum.---Tim

Link

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8N'r

12-05-2006 13:01:01

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to 8N'r, 12-05-2006 12:53:44

J.P. sorry----memory fades with age. After you pull the shifter outward, you need to pull back toward you---Smith's site will show an excellent diagram of what I am talking about. If you have a 4-speed you own an 8N. The 2N's and 9N's all came with 3 speeds forward and 1 reverse---Tim

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JP In Ind.

12-05-2006 13:53:49

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to 8N'r, 12-05-2006 13:01:01

I looked at the sherman diagrams. That is what is odd. It has the 3 distinct "stops" but I can not pull the handle laterally when in the middle. I tried. Stuck maybe?

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jimNCal

12-05-2006 18:57:00

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to JP In Ind., 12-05-2006 13:53:49

If the handle BOLTS on from the outside, it IS a Combo (or 9.25:1 creeper). If it's held on by a pin inside the bellhousing, it's a 'Step'.

jim

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Joe (IN)

12-05-2006 14:02:14

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to JP In Ind., 12-05-2006 13:53:49

I doubt that it's stuck. If there are three distinct detents or clicks, then it's probably just a step-up. The three positions are overdrive, neutral, and standard. The combo only has two distinct detents. The neutral position in the middle where you would pull it out and back to go to standard is not detented.

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J.P. Southern Indiana

12-05-2006 14:05:34

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to Joe (IN), 12-05-2006 14:02:14

Bummer that.
I really do not need speed, I need lower range. Hopefully standard low will be slow enough then. It does definitely have 3 distinct points in the travel.
Out of curiosity, why a neutral?

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duey

12-05-2006 17:03:22

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SHERMAN NEUTRAL in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 14:05:34

I find the neutral a handy device... if I'm bush hogging or doing other three- point work, and I need to hop off for a minute to move junk or connect linkage, I just slide the Sherman to neutral and NOTHING moves. It is convenient. Otherwise it is neutral on the transmission AND neutral or disengage on the PTO as well.

That's my story and I'm stic.... well, you know!

duey

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LeeMo

12-05-2006 14:28:58

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to J.P. Southern Indiana, 12-05-2006 14:05:34

It sounds like you have the overdrive Sherman like I do in one of my 8Ns. I guess if you had to take it down the road to other fields etc. it'd be nice but I never use mine. I've wondered why there's a neutral in the Sherman before too. Now I'm curious to see if anyone has an idea as to why. Lotsa smart fellers here so hopefully someone will know.

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jimNCal

12-05-2006 19:00:34

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Re: Wow ! Information Overload. in reply to LeeMo, 12-05-2006 14:28:58

As Duey said, Sherman neutral disables your entire 3 or 4 speed transmission AND your pto with one shift of ONE lever.

jim

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