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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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2N Power Struggle

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Alaska

02-18-2007 10:55:08




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Hi, My 2N Ford (War Model with Side Distributor) which I drive with my Wife every year to the next town for the Plow Days with the club has never missed a beat plowing snow all winter, this tractor runs like a champ in the coldest of cold weather. starts every time, and just keeps going.

In the spring, we hitch up the Dearborn 2 Bottom, and take it out to work it up a bit. 1st gear full governor, when the plow gets dropped in, the tractor bogs to a complete stall.

In second Gear, I drop the plow, the tractor bogs a bit, then makes this rattling noise, and I notice steam pissing from the radiator, and as soon as the steam comes forth, the tractor seems to have this incredible amount of power, revs up and takes off like there's no plow even in the ground behind it.

I have been told by the Ford Tractor dealer locally (old timer worked with these a lot!), that I should have more torque and pulling power in 1st than 2nd. he doesn't understand why 2nd gear will allow me to pull the plow, but 1st will not, and obviously neither will 3rd.

Any suggestions?

The rattling actually sounds like "Spark Knock" or Detonation, and this rattles for 15 seconds, the radiator pisses a small amount of steam, and the tractor suddenly breathes new life of ungodly amounts of power. I am sure that the Carb is not lean, as I also have a 5 gas analyser (good for getting good mileage out of the car too!) and it shows the tractor running in top shape. Ignition timing is dead on, and the fuel tank, fuel filter assembly, and lines are all NEW and very clean, no rust or scale in my Marvel Schebler carb.

I am just curious if this is normal, or abnormal?

Thanks a bunch, you have a great forum here, and the information is great.

Keep Warm! or as we say here in Alaska: THAW OUT!

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Hobo,NC

02-19-2007 04:28:22




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  
Fergot the link



Third Party Image



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Dunk

02-19-2007 04:45:15




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Hobo,NC, 02-19-2007 04:28:22  
What buggs me about his description of his problem seems it could be a spark advance issue.

I know nothing about the magnetos.

Hobo? Dell?



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Hobo,NC

02-19-2007 06:22:47




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Dunk, 02-19-2007 04:45:15  
He has not confirmed he had a Mag, but a Later 8N side mount. I take it he does have rite smart mechanical abilities but needs a little help wif the understanding how the draft spose to werk. Sum think cuzz it will not control the height of a implement (no position control that the draft does not werk) Most know that draft izz not meant to be position control but not a newbe to the older N tractors. Yes its either up or down with the implement above the ground and you have to fine tune the control leaver fer the rite draft while the implement izz in the ground. He stated he had a rite smart cylinder leakage so I would address that first, I spec he izz headed in the rite direction perform basic engine checks and repair cuzz wif haft a$$ sealing of the valves no tinkering izz gonna git’er’done. It would be nice if all confirmed the basics before they condemned the fuel are ignition system. That’s one reason I am again using a compression test to confirm the condition of the engine, compression test or only a starting point and other test are needed to pin point the problem, a leak down test will nail it. Even a good compression test will fool ya, compression may show up good crank’in but does not show up problems while run’in. So on a suspected cylinder a run’in compression test need to be preformed. Even cam lobe ware my show good compression but it takes a pro to see that sum’in izz not rite wif the readings. I have posted what each of the strokes of the piston should tell when doing a compression test. Buddy of mine has spent around 5k on a Honda 4 wheeler every one has condemned the engine and rebuilt it. Remember it’s a single cylinder engine. The problem ended up B’N a loose valve seat. That would be a hard’in to find on a single cylinder engine. He finely ran it enuff the seat ‘bout fell out, all of’em ain’t EZ to figger out. All I could tell’em izz that’s 1 in a million and a hard’n to figger out.

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DON TX

02-19-2007 14:52:43




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Hobo,NC, 02-19-2007 06:22:47  
Now we know what he's got. He also needs the ZANE THANG to pull that plow comfortably. Sounds like his ground maybe frozen. Or valves? I'm no mechanic expert yet, so donno. DON TX



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Dunk

02-18-2007 19:40:02




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  

Ok, letsee if I am able to post this here like I want to..(it will take a little html magic)


It seems some folks below are on to something here, and I did a little research, here is what I come up with..


 

No tires, battery, generator, starter or lights. Equipped with magneto and crank. Rough rider in third gear but plows well in second

Link


 

Submitted by Steve Hopper, from OR

Link

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Hobo,NC

02-18-2007 17:29:37




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  
I understand zackly what you are trying to say so, these engines have harden valve seats so the unleaded fuel will not damage enny thang.

You should know that leakdown test don’t lie so looks like valve werk izz in yer future and may have a effect on why you kin not pull the 2 bottom. I spec you are see’n 50% or more on the leak down witch izz normal read’n I see when the valves are not seating.

That B’n said in tight soil most of’em will bogg down iffin you bury the 2 bottom. You need to understand How the draft control werks. I do drop the 2 bottom down fer a good bite but pull up on the control leaver to find the desired dept I want as soon as I git a good bite. I use it in short runs so gotta git it the ground rite quick. Click on Hobo’s fer sum plow’in tips.

I have also ran into sum tight soil and have to run a chisel plow thru it so the 2 bottom kin do its thang.
Soil conditions rite these old fords will Git’R Done.

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Alaska

02-18-2007 19:55:39




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Hobo,NC, 02-18-2007 17:29:37  
I know for a fact that the draft control on this unit does NOT work. the hydraulics either go up, or they take someone"s toes off with an implement. the draft control is completely inoperative.

The soil here is really tight, really tough soil. we don"t run a ripper, but after turning the soil with the plows, we run the Disc, and then a spring tooth to help break it up, and another pass with the disc.

I am going to have my friend build a new set of valves for it. he is a Machinist, and does specialty work like this, and I want the Sodium Valves, Hardened and such. I am also going to have the carb glass-lined inside to prevent further rust deposits. these things get really rusty really fast up here (VERY FAR NORTH-Alaska...), and I want to prevent this from being a problem.

Other than That, great little tractor, so I will let y"all know when I get the valves all done. IF it can pull it in first, great, if not, no big deal, I was just not sure if it was made to be pulled in 2nd.

Thanks!

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Hobo,NC

02-19-2007 04:21:31




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 19:55:39  
Sounds like a over kill but if its what you want then go fer it. I have never plowed wif a 2N but have figger 2nd would plow just find but I don’t think Alaska wuz figgerd in. For position control git a Zane thang but fer plow’in what came on the 2N izz the way to go. When you drop the plow you will have to pull the contol leaver up till you find the dept you are look’in fer and the draft control will maintain it. Normally I find that the control leave izz only about 3 in are so from the top to git the dept I am look’in fer and if you push it all the way down the plow will go deeper then the tractor kin handle so pull up till you are able to pull the plow and not stall are have to fight the tractor to keep it going or from trying to tote the front wheels. When their wuz a chrome shop in town I had the tank and fuel lines copper plated, never had a problem wif rust then. You are having to fight a different animal then the rest of us good luck.

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Alaska

02-18-2007 14:57:24




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  
This is a 2N with a Side Mount Distributor, Forgot to mention it has an Early Style 8N Engine, with side distributor. Regardless of the ignition system, I still am befuddled over the lack of full power in 1st gear, and the immense power I have after "Spark Knock" and Steam in 2nd Gear.

I have never been to the "East Coast" area of "America", I live in Wasilla, Alaska, which according to most shipping companes, should be the "United State of Alaska" for what the rest of America really thinks. I have been across the entire Western of the USA, Including Hawaii (great place!)

I don't want to be rude, but I do have this tractor in really good shape, and would like to pull the plow in 1st gear, as it provides a better tracking on the front. When I plow (with the Dearborn) I drop it ALL THE WAY. and the ground here is pretty tough stuff. Not all fluffy like other areas. We really have some Thick Soil, as it gets wet, compacted and frozen. In the spring, it's still frozen clods of mud when plowing.

So, Any Suggestions?

I also note this "Chirping" from the exhaust (also NEW-from Walker Exhaust, cost $57.00 INCLUDING SHIPPING..which was cool!) and I suspect this is Burnt exhaust valves, or exhaust valves and seats that were not made for UNLEADED GASOLINE.

Even if this is the case, the Compression would be low, and should lack power in ALL GEARS, and not have more in just 1 gear (2nd gear). the Compression checks all show that I have considerable (even on the Leak-down test) leakage out the exhaust valves. I am going to give it a good valve job, and take care of the cylinders and lower end as well. but if there is something I am missing here, I would love to hear it, as I can't walk on water just yet, so I'm not perfect, I just think I might have missed something.

Thanks!

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davpal

02-18-2007 20:07:03




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 14:57:24  
Hello Alaska, you said you live in Wasilla? I have some kin that live up there that moved there about 30 years ago from Michigan. Aunt,lot of cousins. How big is the town? You may just be their neighbors. Last name is Vanasdoll. Let me know if my aunt is your neighbor. She would get a kick out of me reading this on here. Later.



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Alaska

02-19-2007 11:25:24




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to davpal, 02-18-2007 20:07:03  
as for the City of Wasilla..... Alaska....

The town has about 60,000 People in it now, as I have watched the town go from bust to boom to bust and back to boom. The town now has 5 lanes running the entire length. we now have Sears, Fred Meyers, Wal-Mart, CSK Auto, Napa, CarQuest, and Well Fargo. We even have 3 Museums. One in particular is my favorite: The Museum of Alaska, Transportation and Industry. they have old tractors, engines, trucks, cars, FULL TRAINS, aircraft, boats, mining equipment, radio towers from airports, fire trucks, busses, Auto-Railers, helicopters, jets, and such forth.

And they love volunteers to help restore their equipment.


I remember when the roads here were ALL 2 lanes, and to get more than 2 lanes you had to go to Anchorage to see multiple lanes. to get to Anchorage you drove on a 2 laned road, although incredibly SLOWLY, because someone was driving very slow at the front of the line 10 miles away.

Now it's 6 lanes from Anchorage to the Valley, we have Massive Interchanges, Round-a-bouts, overpasses, bypasses, and such. You used to know everybody, and you could recognize their car and wave to them. now...you can't.

As for the 2N, it is not the mag- as pictured. it is a Distributor. It has a rotor, Cap, Points, and the coil mounts up top of the engine. the coil is a round, canister style, and has 2 wires connected to it. before i bought the machine, someone backed a truck into the front of it, and really "Ouched" the sheet metal up front.

I'll one day get to that part.

Well, it's Sunny out, and +5 degrees, warm enough to go out to work. I have the bottom half of an engine to go through. followed by a late model electric shift transmission.

Thanks all!

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Ross Pugh(NC)

02-18-2007 14:46:41




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  
Are you with Dunk, down in Georgia, dring something? None of that post makes any sense.



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Ross Pugh(NC)

02-18-2007 14:40:29




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Alaska, 02-18-2007 10:55:08  
Ye better go check the serial number on ye engine 'cause if ye own a 2N wif a side mount distributor it is priceless and should be in a museum, because according to Ford records "NO 2N FORDS WERE PRODUCED WITH SIDE MOUNT DISTRIBUTORS".If you have one that slipped out of the plant many years before official production was started, I am sure it will be of immense value. Go check ye serial number and post back, please.

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DON TX

02-18-2007 14:47:02




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle in reply to Ross Pugh(NC), 02-18-2007 14:40:29  
Could be a magneto. The 2n's first came with magnetos, mistaken lots for distributors since they looked like dists. I maybe wrong? HTH
DON TX



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Ross Pugh(NC)

02-18-2007 14:56:51




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle/Thanks Don in reply to DON TX, 02-18-2007 14:47:02  
Thanks Don, makes sense now. I have never seen or had any experience with the magnetos, but it sounds reasonable now.



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DON TX

02-18-2007 17:13:35




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 Re: 2N Power Struggle/Thanks Don in reply to Ross Pugh(NC), 02-18-2007 14:56:51  
Seems like I remember talk on confusing the right angle magneto, with 8N dist in the past. Probly some photos in the archives. There also is a 90* dist shaft to convert to sidemount,...if I remember right. HTH DON TX



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