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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

sparkers don't spark

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RDAllison

02-28-2007 07:07:20

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Hello,
I have a 8n and the sparkers are not sparking.
The plugs are new and the spark plug wires are new.Is it the coil that has gone bad or the distributor?

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maplehillfrm,pat

02-28-2007 08:10:12

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 07:07:20

I wouldnt figure your distributor to be bad, but we will need to know front mount side mount, could be as simple as a bad resistor,key switch, burnt points,you should track it from the beginning, the key switch be sure you ar getting power to the resistor or terminal block, then be sure it is getting from there to the top of the coil, if it is getting that far at least you know you should have power out the bottom end of the coil,,if you have it that far take off the cap and check your points are the fried and need replaced, if they look good check gap, if all these check out your coil may need replaced, if it is a front mount you may try to pull the springy thing down a bit to be sure its contacting brass screw, check your capa nd rottor button are the worn or grooved,, may need replacing,, check the small stuff first ,, you can jumper across your switch and resistor block to see if they are bad,, coil there really isnt a test for it,,post back with additional info, if you have it,good luck pat

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old

02-28-2007 08:05:19

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 07:07:20

From what little info you give it could be a good number of things. You might have a bad ignition switch, a bad or broken wire, a bad condenser, bad or dirty points, and or a bad coil.

Hobby farm

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Colin King

02-28-2007 07:41:05

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 07:07:20

What Bob"s getting at, RD, is we need to know the following:

Is it 6volt or 12volt?

Is it a front mounted distributor or side mounted?

And what else have you done to it lately?

And what are the circumstances that this happened? Has it been sitting in a shed or outside for a long time without being run? Or have you been working the tractor hard and it suddenly won"t start?

With a little extra info, I bet this board will be able to get your 8N running in a jiffy!

Colin in Minn

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RDAllison

02-28-2007 08:47:40

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Colin King, 02-28-2007 07:41:05

Hey,
Its a 12 volt, front mount. A friend recently gave it to me. I don't know where he kept it, but he said it has not been running for about 4 years.He had done quite a bit of work on it before he gave it to me (new spark plugs, spark wires, alternator, 12 volt conversion).

There is 15 volts going into the top of the coil.

Thanks for the help

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old

02-28-2007 09:10:40

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 08:47:40

15 Volts?? Sounds like your meter is off some or a very over charged battery. If it doesn't have a 12 volt coil on it then you may have a burned out coil. Also if its been parked that long you need to put some tranny fluid in the cylinders to unstick the rings and clean up the rust that will be in the cylinders. I would start by putting in new points and condenser and go from there

Hobby farm

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Colin King

02-28-2007 09:09:55

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 08:47:40

RD,

Pull the square can type coil off the distributor by releasing the wire bail and gently stretch the small coiled wire at the base of the coil. Replace the coil onto the distributor and see if you get voltage to your points.

Also, I would strongly advise you to put a table spoon of Marvel Mystery Oil or ATF in each sparkplug hole before you actually try to start her up. Let it sit over night. 4 years is plenty of time for rings to get stuck.

Report back ... I'm not expert on this, so hopefully some of the other guys will chime in.

Colin

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RDAllison

02-28-2007 11:51:03

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Colin King, 02-28-2007 09:09:55

Hey,
I stretched the spring on the coil (it was a little corroded around the spring) and put it back on the dis.
I turned on the ignition and checked the points for voltage (I dont know very much engine terminology). I'm assuming that means the place where you plug in the spark plug wires.The voltage is down to 12 volts now going in the coil but at the points there was less than a volt.

Thanks so much

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Dell (WA)

02-28-2007 12:33:57

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 11:51:03

RDAllison..... ...with points open, volts at the top of the squarecan ignition coil is always battery volts (your case 12-volt battery) Its the LAW!!! Kirchhoff's Law.

Points closed, volts at the top of the squarecan ignition coil could be 12-volts, 6-volts, 3-volts. Its the LAW!!!

BUT..... points closed, volts at the points gotta be ZERO. Its the LAW!!!

Its NOT UNCOMMON for long-term no-run ignition points (frontmount gap=0.015) to get "invisible corrosion" that cause WEAK SPARKIES. Same with the weaksister ignition switch. ($10, cheap)

TIP: drag a clean dollar-bill thru closed points to remove/polish points corrosion away..... ..Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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RDAllison

03-01-2007 06:54:24

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Dell (WA), 02-28-2007 12:33:57

Hello,
My dad and I go it figured out.
We found that the coil was open on the primary
condenser.
I think thats what he siad it was all way over my head.
Thank you all for your help.
RDAllison

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Colin King

03-01-2007 07:36:19

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 03-01-2007 06:54:24

Glad to hear you got it worked out!

Colin

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Colin King

02-28-2007 14:24:49

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Dell (WA), 02-28-2007 12:33:57

Dell, Thanks for jumping in here. I'm definitely over my head.

Is there no way then to actually test the volts at the points? If the points were closed, then wouldn't that mean that the voltage at the coil should be the same as at the points because it's all one path for the current?

Colin

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Dell (WA)

02-28-2007 14:58:12

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Colin King, 02-28-2007 14:24:49

Colin..... ..its called "voltage drop" for a reason. Its the LAW! Kirchhoff's Law. Electronics 101. Points open, (the insulated moving part) battery volts; points closed, (the insulated moving part) ZERO volts. Why? because points are GROUND. (or at least the NON-moving parts of points)

BTW, ground can be negative or positive but it is ALWAYS ZERO VOLTS. Iff'n you don't read zero volts, the points are NOT grounded. There is some invisible resistance (corrosion or rust) causing resistance. Simple, eh?..... ..Dell, retired Electronics Engr

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Colin King

03-01-2007 07:51:37

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Dell (WA), 02-28-2007 14:58:12

Okay, so points open reflects the potential once the circuit is completed, whereas points closed is zero because the electromagnetic field must be conserved?

So you COULD verify that your points were correctly connected when they are open, at least in so much as they should read battery volts (6V or 12V, etc.) And if points were closed and you read voltage, you would know that you had a problem, right?

Colin

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Dell (WA)

03-01-2007 12:26:57

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Colin King, 03-01-2007 07:51:37

Colin..... ..yeah, semi-correct. You write..... Okay, so points open reflects the potential once the circuit is completed..... .NO, points OPEN reflects the potential BEFORE the circuit is completed. Understand?

You write..... "whereas points closed is zero because the electromagnetic field must be conserved?"..... ..points closed is ZERO because GROUND is ZERO; electromagnetic field has 'nuttin' to do with it.

You write..... "So you COULD verify that your points were correctly connected when they are open, at least in so much as they should read battery volts (6V or 12V, etc.) And if points were closed and you read voltage, you would know that you had a problem, right?"..... YES!!! that is correct. Thats the LAW..... ..purrfessor Dell

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Colin King

03-01-2007 12:41:25

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to Dell (WA), 03-01-2007 12:26:57

Hey Dell, thanks! That clarification makes a lot of sense.

Colin

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Bob

02-28-2007 07:20:17

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Re: sparkers don't spark in reply to RDAllison, 02-28-2007 07:07:20

Early 8N's had a "front-mount" distributor, and late 8N's had a "side mount" distributor.

They are TOTALLY DIFFERENT "animals", and to get useful help, you'll have to toss us a few clues as to which setup you have!

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