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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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starter has taken to smoking

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ratface

03-26-2007 10:32:14




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1949 8N, 12 volt, push button starting switch front mount. Problem: Very hard starting because starter slows down and begins emitting smoke right out that little hole on the back plate. The battery is two years old and showed 1/2 charge when put on charger. Since been fully charged. Changed out cables same time as battery. Bendix is 5 years old and the new style clutch drive and is turning and disengaging. Is the starter on its last legs? Behaves the same on a fully charged battery. Gauge shows tractor is charging while running. What's going on in that starter?

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teddy52food

03-27-2007 07:05:44




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 10:32:14  
Pull the starter & have new bushings fitted. It seemes like the armature is dragging. Also check the 2 bolts going through very carefully for a burn mark. You may have a spot on the field coil bare & the bolt is touching. Look at the field coils also.



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john hunt

03-26-2007 18:48:34




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 10:32:14  
you know old saying when you let the smoke out it all gone, there ani't anything left .. it sound rebuild job for somebody ...



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Bob Harvey

03-26-2007 17:21:45




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 10:32:14  
After all, it IS old enough to smoke !! HAHA !



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A. Bohemian

03-26-2007 14:50:29




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 10:32:14  
Hi, soundguy.

I don't know about this one. Something seems wrong here...

If you have a DIRECT short to ground, you should be blowing fuses, and the starter shouldn't turn at all.

So, although a short is the logical conclusion, perhaps excess friction is causing heating inside the starter. Does the Ford starter require periodic lubrication the way the Farmall starter does?

Either way, it's time to pull the starter and rebuild it or have it done. I definitely wouldn't keep running it this way; you could start a fire and do a great deal of damage.

You can probably find rebuilt (or even new) starters for the N series. That's the advantage of working on one of these tractors as opposed to, say, a Hispano-Suiza.

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souNdguy

03-27-2007 05:16:13




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to A. Bohemian, 03-26-2007 14:50:29  
All different levels of shorts besides direct. restive shorts can happen and cause heating and smoking.

Also.. Fuses? just what fuse do you think is inthe starting circuit???

Soundguy



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A. Bohemian

03-26-2007 15:01:43




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to A. Bohemian, 03-26-2007 14:50:29  
I just noticed you have a 12 volt conversion. I am sorry now I replied, as all my expertise with tractors is with 6 volt systems, and many 12 volt conversions are unique, defying diagnosis over the web.

So, take my speculations with caution.

And, I should note that running the 6 volt starter on 12 volts is usually ok, but if one cranks and cranks and cranks FOR EXCESSIVE PERIODS OF TIME it IS possible to burn out the starter.

Most people just go ahead and run the 6 volt starter on 12 volts and never experience a problem. But it sounds like you've been doing some serious cranking and if you ARE running the original 6 volt starter and have held the button down for thirty or more seconds at a time, you may have burned it up.

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souNdguy

03-26-2007 10:46:58




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 10:32:14  
Time to pull her apart and see where she is emitting smoke from. Might be a field short to case...

Soundguy



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Dan hill

03-27-2007 02:03:47




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to souNdguy, 03-26-2007 10:46:58  
Field to case shorts are rare.Fields and armature are suspect.Famous last words.12 volts wont hurt your 6 volt starter.Wanna bet..



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souNdguy

03-27-2007 05:17:45




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to Dan hill, 03-27-2007 02:03:47  
Rare or not.. its obvious that starter has a problem. something is getting hot.. that usually means excessive current draw.. most likely culpret for that is a short, somewhere, or it is dragging, or being cranked on far too long.

My original advice stands.. pull it for a looksee / rebuild.

Hard to go wrong there..

Soundguy



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ratface

03-26-2007 11:09:49




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to souNdguy, 03-26-2007 10:46:58  
Sounder, is that a death sentence?



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souNdguy

03-26-2007 11:22:41




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 11:09:49  
Uh.. no.. it just means you need replacement parts..

Soundguy



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ratface

03-26-2007 18:02:53




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to souNdguy, 03-26-2007 11:22:41  
I realize that diagnosis over the web is hit or miss. Its been a reliable 12 volt conversion for the past six years. I'm faced with earning a living 140 from the tractor so If a reasonable diagnosis can be made I can show up with a part and be back in business. No one has mentioned the selenoid, cables or battery as the possible culprit. I'm surprised that no one has asked if the battery has been load tested. You all are confirming my belief that the problem is in the starter. It seems logical that if smoke is comming from within the starter something is wrong there. I would never crank a starter for thirty seconds and it will start smoking in ten. The starter itself dosen't get too hot to touch though? I went all last year with no issues, I guess its time to pet the tractor again. These tractors have a spirit within them. Put her on ebay three times and didn't sell. ran great after that. The old adage is right , its 1 in 10 hours of maintanence for operation and if you get a trouble free year these machines will make it up in the long run.

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souNdguy

03-27-2007 05:11:37




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 Re: starter has taken to smoking in reply to ratface, 03-26-2007 18:02:53  
10 seconds of continous start is, IMHO, still a bit much.. especially if it is a 6v starter on a 12v system.

In any case.. I don't think this is going to be an issue where you bring a part out to the starter and swap it. You really need to pull the starter and take it to a rebuilder, unless you have the tools and diagnostic gear to rebuild the starter yourself in your shop ( you may ).

Soundguy

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