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1951 8N turns over but dosn't start

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St. Clair Count

04-03-2007 22:16:55

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OK.. here we go. I just purchased my first tractor and couldn't be more excited to get some things done around my property.... once I get it to start.
My long time neighbor across the way sold his farm and moved out of state. Since I had always used his 8N for what nots around the farm I was happy to buy it from him before he moved. He said he was having trouble starting it just before he sold it to me and now it turns over but dosn't start at all.
That would be no problem for most of you, but I have no mechanicle skills outside of changing the oil or plugs and checking tire pressure.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I should begin to look? I have always been told... If you don't know where to start then start at the beginning... Uh where would that be.. lol
btw.. I did go to Tractor Supply and bought a new battery, and cleaned the spark plugs up. That would be the extent of my so called preventive maintenance program... I look forward to someday sharring some good stories with everyone but till then!
Thanks,
Mike

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Dunk

04-04-2007 18:04:51

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

Title: Having yer first 50+ year old tractor.

3 things you NEED to know.

The first and most important is, what IS the condition of the engine?

A simple dry, then wet compression test will give you that information. You may have a worn out condition, you may have stuck rings, or valve problems.

Then you need to know will it spark the plugs?

Take all of the plugs out, put the wires back on them and sit them on top of the block, it should then spin really good with the starter, especially if you pour the recommended auto tranny fluid in the plug holes (to help loosen up any stuck rings).

Turning it over with the starter you should be able to see them all spark, at different times.

Ifn all that is good all you then need to worry about is can fuel git to the carb, check that by pulling the carb drain plug and seeing how fast it will or won't run a quart.

Then is the gas getting thru the carb, or is it stopped up?

Nutshell basics.

Post back the results.

Dell would say, simple, eh?

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ZANE

04-04-2007 16:37:17

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

First thing is to determine in it is fuel or ignition. Buy a can of starting fluid. Spray a good dose of it down the intake at the opening of the air cleaner. Try to start it. If it starts then dies it is a fuel problem. If it never even tries to start it is probably an ignition problem. Remove the distributor cap, rotot, spring clip off the distributor shaft under the rotor, remove the dust cover where then you will find the ignition points. Turn the engine over until the points are open. If they won't open that may be your problem. Use a screw driver to adjust the points so that they are about .020 gap in them when the cam wiper is on top of one of the cam lobes. Remove the center wire from the distributor cap that comes from the coil. Turn the ignition switch on. Hold the coil wire about 1/4" from the engine block. With the points open use a screwdriver with an insulated handle to make contact across the two members of the ignition points. If the fire jumps the gap at the end of the coil high tension wire you are holding close to the block you know you have power to the points. Turn the ignition switch on and turn the engine over while still holding the coil wire close to the block. If you don't get a spark at the gap then you need to replace the ignition poinhts and set the points gap at .020.

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hopeful-me

04-04-2007 16:13:48

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

I have a 508N, same configuration as you have w the side mount dist. I am also in SE Michigan, Clarkston. If you continue to get stuck, send me a note, and we can get her going. Ortonville2@yahoo.com Tony

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JoePilot

04-04-2007 09:19:43

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

I had the same problem when we inherited my father-in-law's 1951 8N (6V, side mount). I became harder and harder to start, then would not start at all. Most of the electrical system looked like original equipment, so I took a scatter-gun approach. Started by changing plugs, plug wires and coil. Also changed the distributor cap because the center coil wire was welded to it. These were all easy and not too expensive. Best part, the tractor started when I was done.

Since then, I've also replaced the battery and the entire wire harness. You've done the former, but the latter is also highly recommended. My wires were corroded to the point that they would break when I tried to take them off to clean connections.

It is also good to replace and/or clean/gap your points, but I haven't done that (yet).

If I had to guess, I would say that fuel flow is less likely the problem. Uually in that case there's enough gas to start the engine, but under load it will falter.

Good luck with your tractor!

Joe

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LeeMo

04-04-2007 09:04:00

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

I'd pull out a plug and see if there's any spark when you crank it over. If not, check/replace the points and condenser, distributor cap and rotor. Where are you located ?? St. Clair County is in what state ??

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St.. Clair County, Michig

04-04-2007 11:31:53

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to LeeMo, 04-04-2007 09:04:00

Sorry, I live in Michigan but I am on an extensive business trip to Kansas City. I will be flying home tomorrow for Easter and will start using the information you guys have given me here.
I appreciate all the help and will keep everyone updated.
Thanks again,
Michael

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old

04-04-2007 08:24:34

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

First place to start is to get a few books. I would start with an I-T manual FO-04. Now after doing that look at doing a complete tune up on it. Now if your in Missouri and get get over this way, the lkae of the ozarks you could always stop by for a crash course in working on tractors. I'm always happy to help people learn how to make them work. See my web page for more info as to where I am.

Hobby farm

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Kenster

04-04-2007 06:36:51

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

Remove the plug at the bottom of your carb. Open your fuel valve two full turns. You should be getting a nice steady stream of fuel out of the bottom of the carb. It should continue until you've about filled up a quart jar. Do you see any dirt/rust fines in the gas? If you don't get a good strong flow you need to check your three filter/screens. There's one in the elbow that connects the fuel line to the carb, one on top of the sediment bowl, and one on top of the fuel shutoff assembly that sticks up into the tank. If the fuel you catch in the quart jar has dirt or rust particles, and if the screens have gunk in them then you have gunk in your gas tank. You'll need to drain the tank, remove the hood, detach the tank and clean it out. Some folks have had success power washing the tank, or rinsing it many times with a water hose, or soaking it in vinegar. I took mine to a radiator shop and had it boiled out.
Regardless, it won't do any good, long term, just to clean out the filter screens if you don't also clean out the fuel tank. AND... if the rest of your fuel system is that dirty, you're going to want to tackle the carb, too. I installed a new carb because I've never rebuilt one and didn't have time to learn. I also replaced the fuel line, elbow connector, and the sediment bowl/shutoff valve assembly.

You may very well have an electrical problem, but checking your fuel flow is an easy first step before you start pulling plugs. It's a good idea to go ahead and check the fuel flow and fuel filter/screens anyway. There's a good chance they'll need some attention.

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TheOldHokie

04-04-2007 05:43:22

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

The beginning:

Fuel + Spark + Compression = Fire.

1) Check for spark starting at the plugs and working backwards until found. Fix and repair as needed.

2) Make sure you have fuel to the cylinders. Manually inject a SMALL amount of fuel if in doubt.

3) If still no go check compression with a tester.

HTH,

TOH

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A. Bohemain

04-04-2007 08:04:00

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Na Pocatku... in reply to TheOldHokie, 04-04-2007 05:43:22

Thou hast said it, Hokie, yea verily, even thou.

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Empennage

04-04-2007 03:01:02

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to St. Clair County Mike, 04-03-2007 22:16:55

Is the distributor in front of the engine or on the right side of the engine? You say you cleaned the plugs. If you take a plug out and reattach the plug wire then rest the threaded portion of the plug to ground (anywhere on the tractor that's metal..except the carb..there's gas there) Then be careful that you are NOT in gear (don't want you getting run over by your new tractor!) turn the key and hit the starter and see if you get any spark to that plug. Autolite 437's are the best plug for your 8N and even though you cleaned them it might be tune up time.

Then post back. If you are getting a nice blue spark, check fuel flow next.

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Mike Mi. 8N

04-04-2007 11:52:02

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start in reply to Empennage, 04-04-2007 03:01:02

I believe it is a side mount... right front side to be exact.

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Ross Pugh(NC)

04-04-2007 07:38:28

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start/Empennage in reply to Empennage, 04-04-2007 03:01:02

Emoennage, he said it was a 1951, so wouldn't that make it a side mount?

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Empennage

04-04-2007 09:07:52

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start/Empennage in reply to Ross Pugh(NC), 04-04-2007 07:38:28

I have an 8N and the serial number is JC-190, now going by that what kind of distributor do I have on my tractor?

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Ross Pugh(NC)

04-05-2007 15:14:55

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start/Empennage in reply to Empennage, 04-04-2007 09:07:52

NO 8n"s were produced with the serial number JC-190. Ye ain't got a 8n.

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Empennage

04-06-2007 08:38:48

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Re: 1951 8N turns over but dosn't start/Empennage in reply to Ross Pugh(NC), 04-05-2007 15:14:55

Hmmm.. What"s this then?

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