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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge?

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Hopeful-Me

04-21-2007 19:04:53




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My ampmeter does not seem to work, and no charge to the battery.

I had replaced the harness, and cleaned the termainals well. I also sparked the voltage regulator to polarize the generator.

Looks like the ampmeter is dead, it does not register anything. How to check it? Can it inhibit the generator from charging the battery?

Sorry for so many questions, but just got it started, and uncovered these items.

Thanks,

Tony

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Hopeful-Me

04-22-2007 17:00:51




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
Thanks everyone, I do appreciate the information.

The prev owner could not get it started, and I believe may have put 12 volts to the system. I do not know. I do know the new 6 volt battery he had in the unit was cooked. To many times running it to nothing, charging, and cranking to dead again.

I put 12 volts to the starter motor only. And it started up nicely after a few attempts.

Since the tractor came to me as a Not Running unit, I never had the benefit of going from working to not working.

I happen to be having a fun time uncovering one mystery at a time. each investigation has been rewarding.

Since the ampmeter registers no effect with the coil on, nor when I did crank it with the 6 volt, my guess is it's bad. It's not an original unit.

I will go back over all the messages and glean the next step checks.

Thanks

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jmixigo

04-22-2007 06:57:12




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
I'm sure that others here have seen more an know more than me, but after working on hundreds of old Ford tractors over a real long time I have never seen two original components fail-the ampmeter an the safety starter switch. Never.



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Vern-MI

04-22-2007 04:44:22




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
I thought that ampmeters were nothing more than voltmeters which were measuring voltage drop across a shunt resistor. If the shunt resistor were to burn out then you would not have continuity through the meter and it would not be charging the battery or if the terminals were encrusted with corrosion then the added resistance may prevent charging. You could jumper across the ampmeter and read the battery voltage (should be above 12 volts) to see if it will charge the battery. But I'm old so maybe things have changed.

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Sam#3

04-22-2007 06:40:20




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Vern-MI, 04-22-2007 04:44:22  
Actually it's the other way around. The ammeter is the base device. If it is shunted it's because the base movement cannot carry the expected load and the shunt is add to increase the capacity. Adding a dropping resister in series with an ammeter makes a voltmeter. The ammeter is connected in series with the circuit to be measured and a voltmeter is connected in parallel.



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Dell (WA)

04-22-2007 05:56:40




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Vern-MI, 04-22-2007 04:44:22  
Tony..... ..Vern is correct for the 2-terminal replacement ampmeter; (which is actually a rather bulletproof design BTW) The original ampmeter is a wire thru a loop design and also a rather bulletproof design too. Neither style ampmeter is very accurate. (20% accurate)

But according to Hakeem's Razor, its yer just replaced wiring harness..... .Dell, former cal-lab engr



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A. Bohemian

04-22-2007 08:39:53




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 As the Little Light Above my Head Comes On... in reply to Dell (WA), 04-22-2007 05:56:40  
Quote: "The original ampmeter is a wire thru a loop design and also a rather bulletproof design too."

Dell, is this what the old-timers used to call a "moving iron" movement as opposed to the more common d'Arsonval?

"Neither style ampmeter is very accurate. (20% accurate)."

As an old mentor of mine used to say, "It's a twenty-percent world, kid!"

This is why I tell people to look for "an approximately 2-4 amp static discharge" when they first throw the switch.

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A. Bohemian

04-22-2007 08:25:19




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 The Rest...Of The Story! in reply to Dell (WA), 04-22-2007 05:56:40  
Dell, someone is asking you to be a mind reader again!

From a previous post: "6Volt system... I hooked a 12 volt up...It started with the 12 volt battery, after a bit...I tried to restart after I ran it 30 minutes, but no go."

He was advised by Joe(IN): "If you hooked the 12V battery up to the tractor with the battery cables instead of just to the starter only via jumper cables, then you've pretty much cooked the voltage regulator and that's why you don't see ammeter movement and the 6V battery keeps falling flat."

In my opinion (and I WILL defer to professional mechanics or those with more Ford experience), this was good advice, and you should have taken it, Hopeful.

There is a procedure to bypass the voltage regulator for testing purposes. I think that was given to you also; but several of the posters on this thread can repeat it for you if you need it.

If you have not already replaced the voltage regulator, I think this test would be an excellent use of your time.

In addition, the fact that you see no static discharge of approx. 3 amps when the ignition is first turned on indicates you have fried your coil or points or maybe the ballast resistor, although I don't have enough experience with these Ford to know which is the likely culprit.

If you think the ammeter is bad, substitute an aftermarket one in. They're not too expensive. Or you can test the ammeter you have with a battery and appropriate resistor using Ohm's Law. I would be happy to help you with this; I'm sure others would also.

I gently and respectfully suggest you put down the toolkit for a little while and do some appropriate reading from the aricles you see listed on the left hand side of this page.

A. Bohemian...Good Day!

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Phil (NJ,AZ,SASK)

04-22-2007 10:29:51




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 Re: The Rest...Of The Story! in reply to A. Bohemian, 04-22-2007 08:25:19  
[quote]then you've pretty much cooked the voltage regulator [/quote]

If the tractor did not start the voltage regulator is safe. The Bat connection on the voltage regulator cut-out is OPEN and only closes if the generator produces ~ >6.5 volts.

JMHO



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A. Bohemian

04-22-2007 17:45:00




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 I Reiterate in reply to Phil (NJ,AZ,SASK), 04-22-2007 10:29:51  
Quote: "It started with the 12 volt battery, after a bit...I tried to restart after I ran it 30 minutes..."



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dan hill

04-22-2007 02:24:04




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
Your meter should show a 4 amp discharge with the ignition switch on.If the points are closed you will see the discharge reading.



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soundguy

04-21-2007 21:48:38




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
Yes and no... An 'open' ammeter would prevent battery charging.. however it would also prevent battery power from getting to your battery ignition system.. so.. unless you have a magneto your engine wouldn't start either.

re-check your wireing and make sure you are wired as the diagram.

Soundguy



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roger '40 9n

04-21-2007 19:18:39




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
Yes a bad ammeter can cause no charge to the battery. It measures the current into or outa the battery. If it is bad then it can keep current from getting into and outa the battery.


Amp meters do not go bad very often. It is more likely that you have it wired wrong.

Roger in Michigan



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Dunk

04-21-2007 19:17:10




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 Re: Can a bad Ampmeter cause no charge? in reply to Hopeful-Me, 04-21-2007 19:04:53  
The originals just have a loop that a wire runs thru.

No they won't cause it to not charge.

With the latter ones with 2 terminals it is possible.

I'm not sure if it is probable.



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