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9N Engine Stalls

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Hamburg

04-25-2007 03:49:46




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My neighbor is having difficulty keeping his 9N tractor running. He has Parkinsons and cannot do his own repairs so I have volunteered. My experience with these old tractors is limited. He recently had converted from 6V to 12V. I don't think he replaced all the required components due to the fact that his starter fried. I installed a new starter and it failed to start. There was now spark from the coil so I replaced that as well. I then noticed that the primary wire to the points was grounding at the distributor (the insulator was damaged). I spliced a wire through the distributor to bypass the insulated connector. The points were fine and gapped. I didn't replace the condensor. The tractor started and ran well for about 10 minutes then stalled. It would immediately start again, but would stall shortly thereafter. The question is whether the ignition system is still to blame or may it be carburation or something else entirely?

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Dell (WA)

04-25-2007 08:21:42




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 03:49:46  
Hamburg..... ....it AIN'CHUR CARB..... keep yer itchy fingers off'n them handy-dandy carb tweek'ems.

Running for about 10-15mins and stallin' is almost ALWAYS yer weaksister 2-wire ignition switch. $12 (cheap)

Semi-bad ignition condenser usually crapps out after about 1-min; ain'chur problem but could be.

Clogged fuel filters (3ea) usually sputter yer engine off in about 5-mins and refills and restarts innna'bout 10-mins. ain'chur problem but could be.

MAJOR TIP: replace the roundcan ignition coil with a real 12-volt ignition coil that uses NO RESISTORS ever. NAPA IC-14SB is recommended $15 (cheap) Why? 'cuz it also has "hotter-sparkies" too for better starting.

Did I remember to tell you to REPLACE yer weaksister ignition switch?..... ...Dell yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Bob

04-25-2007 06:49:12




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 03:49:46  
One thing I have learned... if you take that stud out and replace it with a wire, there's NOT much room between the advance weights, when they "fly out" at higher RPM's and the wire, where it passes by them.

Check the wire for damage.

Was the tractor converted to (-) ground when it was converted to 12-Volts... likely if it has an alternator, questionable if a 12-Volt generator was swapped in.

IF it HAS been changed from (+) ground to (-) ground, the coil's (-) terminal should be connected to the distributor's points/condensor.

To see if the spark is failing, or it is a fuel-related problem, connect one of the sparl plug wires to a "spark tester"... a spare spark plug with the gap widened to about 3/16",and it's "shell" grounded.

Watch the spark at the "tester", as the engine falters and stalls. Does it "lose spark" as it's shutting down? That will tell you where to dig deeper... ignition system, or fuel system.

Also... Is there a ballast reistor in the ignition circuit, or hopefully you have inbstalled a "true" 12-Volt coil needing NO external resistor.

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Hamburg

04-25-2007 07:07:14




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Bob, 04-25-2007 06:49:12  
Good post...Thanks

I'll check the wire for damage. The tractor stalls at idle and full throttle.

The tractor was converted to negative ground, but I believe that the primary wire to the points comes from the positive coil post. I'll change thaat when I get home tonight.

I like the 'spark testor idea'. I'll do that after the coil wire swap.

We did replace the old 6V coil with a 12V version. The old voltage regulator was disconnected and replaced with a solid state ceramic block. What would the ballast resistor look like, and where in the circuit would it be? Would it cause problems if it were still present in a 12V system?

Thanks again!

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Bob

04-25-2007 07:16:49




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 07:07:14  
I would GUESS the "solid state voltage regulator in a ceramic block" IS the ballast resistor.

What make and part # is the coil... Does it say "use WITH external ballast reistor" on the coil, or something like "No external resistor needed"?

Also, the "ceramic resistor blocks" come in many "flavors". I don't suppose you know a make and part # for that? (In other words, the resistance values can vary widely, depending upon what that specific part was designed for.)

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Hamburg

04-25-2007 07:32:01




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Bob, 04-25-2007 07:16:49  
I'll call the owner to see if he can get the info before days end. Otherwise I'll get it this afternoon. So, if we see "No external resistor needed" on the coil, the ceramic resistor can be deleted?



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Bob

04-25-2007 10:00:13




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 07:32:01  
Correct. (Be sure, though, that the resistor is in the primary ignition circuit.)

SOME 12-Volt conversions with an alternator use a resistor in the wire alternator's #1 "switched excite" terminal.



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john hunt

04-25-2007 06:42:24




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 03:49:46  
HEY YOU OUT OF GAS OR FUEL LINE PLUG. check the tank first



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A. Bohemian

04-25-2007 06:57:36




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 Heh heh! in reply to john hunt, 04-25-2007 06:42:24  
I've told before the story of the time we spent an afternoon trying to start a John Deere MT, only to realize after three hours head scratching that it was OUT OF GAS!



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Bruce (VA)

04-25-2007 04:45:07




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 03:49:46  
This wouldn't be the first 12v conversion which resulted in a fried coil. You say it is a 9n, but mention a wire going into the distributor. Is this a front or side distributor?



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Hamburg

04-25-2007 05:42:39




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Bruce (VA), 04-25-2007 04:45:07  
The distributor is mounted on the right side of the engine. The wire entering the distributor comes from the positive post of the coil and originally connected to a threaded brass post that was insulated from the distributor. The coil is mounted to the front of the cylinder head. One point I failed to mention was that it looks like the exhaust manifold gasket leaks at the front cylinder.



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Drmeatman

04-25-2007 04:09:55




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 Re: 9N Engine Stalls in reply to Hamburg, 04-25-2007 03:49:46  
Hamburg,I would start with the fuel question and then go from there.Remove the fuel line at the carb and check for "good"flow.Remove the bolt at the bottom of the carb (with fuel on)see if you have a good flow.Many times the fuel will flow but the cap is "stopped" up and/or the vent on the tank (top) is pluged.If these check ok I would say you have electrical problems.No spark/no far/no go.Let us know.You will get HELP.

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