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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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ammeter... previously posted

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cotton

05-05-2007 16:14:35




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Sorry guys but I previously posted this question and didn't get a chance to get back on any of your Ideas. So here we go again. Alright guys, I have replaced the gauges in my 6v 8n and I still don't have anything but a "jump" occasionally when I turn on the key. It just stays zeroed. My old gauge was junk, with the loop so I cut the harness and put ends to connect to the post of the newer style. Now I understand you could get a backwards reading and you would need to switch the + or - but I have nothing. Any Help, please. Now I will try to answer some of the questions I received before. It was an ammeter I installed not a volt meter, It does zero when running, and no I havn't repolarized the genny. The only jump you see in the gauge is immediately when you turn on key. The ignition switch seems to always work fine and the tractor starts and runs like a charm. I am not arguing any about the points Idea but, I think If I had a problem there it would affect the way my tractor starts and runs. I am not seeing any 3 volt or so discharge before It starts. I should have give a little better description last post, sorry for that.

A. Bohemian, Dunk and Phil I hope this might answer your questions. I would appreciate any new info, Thanks

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A. Bohemian

05-05-2007 21:43:45




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 Thanks for the Feedback in reply to cotton, 05-05-2007 16:14:35  
Quote: "I think If I had a problem there it would affect the way my tractor starts and runs."

Yep. The fact that you are NOT showing a 3 amp or so discharge with the ignition thrown but the engine runs well can only mean the ammeter is defective or installed incorrectly.

The ignition system needs 3 amps or so to make good spark, and I imagine if the engine runs well and can pull a load, it is probably getting it.

In addition, if the voltage check prescribed by Bob shows a hair over seven volts or a little better, you should be showing several amps charge when the engine is running.

A question: what kind of experience do you have with electronics?

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soundguy

05-05-2007 20:44:40




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to cotton, 05-05-2007 16:14:35  
Rig up a large incandescent load.. like a lamp, use 2 gator clips.. jumper one side of the lamp to battery ground. use the other side to touch THE LOAD SIDE POST ON THE AMMETER.. THAT'S THE ONE WITH THE KEY POWER COMING OFF IT.. THE OTHER SIDE IS THE LINE FROM THE GENERATOR ( oops.. caps ) .. when the lamp comes on.. the meter should deflect negative as the battery is supplying power. if the lamp comes on.. but the needle don't moove.. you are wired up bass-ackwards.. or the meter is bad...

Conversly, you can take a battery charger and clamp the appropriate polarity to battery ground, and then touch the other clamp to the other side of the ammeter.. the one with the wire coming from the genny.. then it should show a positive deflection as the charger charges the battery.

Soundguy

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Phil (Nj,Az,Sask)

05-05-2007 18:00:55




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to cotton, 05-05-2007 16:14:35  
[quote] I am not seeing any 3 volt or so discharge before It starts. [/quote]

I hope the "VOLT" was a typo, An ammeter measures
AMPS.

You may have a bad Gauge. Even if your Gen is
not charging (+ve Amps), the Battery would then be supplying Current(discharge)to the Ignition.

Those meters are very sensitive, passing a Small Magnet across the back will usually deflect the meter needle.

The Zero condition will only happen when your battery is fully charged & the Gen OP is only suppling the ignition. That would be rare.

The other possibility is that someone rewired your tractor such that the meter is Bypassed. Remove one wire from the meter, does your tractor still start & Run?

Hope This Helps,

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A. Bohemian

05-05-2007 21:55:34




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 Good Thinking, Phil! in reply to Phil (Nj,Az,Sask), 05-05-2007 18:00:55  
Quote: "Remove one wire from the meter, does your tractor still start & Run?"

The above would be an instructive diagnostic to run at this point, cotton.



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Dunk

05-05-2007 18:15:28




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to Phil (Nj,Az,Sask), 05-05-2007 18:00:55  
On my original ammeter with the loop, I can go around, and around, the edge of the glass at the metal with the end of my finger, at the right speed, and make it flop back and forth.

I promise that is true, I have done it lots of times.



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gahorN

05-05-2007 18:31:10




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 Dunk's magnetic personality? in reply to Dunk, 05-05-2007 18:15:28  
Maybe it's your magnetic personality... or maybe you should clean the steel filings out from under your fingernail? ;Þ



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Dunk

05-05-2007 18:51:54




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 Re: Dunk's magnetic personality? in reply to gahorN, 05-05-2007 18:31:10  
LMAO

I am gonna go with that, and the fact that I was an electrician for many years.

Had some aggravating current in my limbs a few times over that time.

Maybe I am "polarized"...



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Dan

05-05-2007 18:59:48




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 Re: Dunk's magnetic personality? in reply to Dunk, 05-05-2007 18:51:54  
Only if you touched your "ARM" to "BAT" :-)

Dan



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Muskie

05-05-2007 17:33:49




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to cotton, 05-05-2007 16:14:35  
I just filled the hole in my NAA panel with a Ammeter from TSC. It only cost $8.. and it's worth maybe a third of that... Junk! (note the capital 'J').

It works, but barely. Mine will go to 10+ when at idle, then show zero when at cruising RPM's.

I did get lucky with hooking up the correct wires to show Positive when charging. I still have my NAA as a 6V positive ground. So, the correct wiring is the wire that runs to the relay goes to the neg Ammeter post, and the Positive ammeter wire runs to the terminal block.

I know this does nothing for your question, but figured I'd toss in my 2cents since I just replaced the ammeter.... for what it was worth.

Muskie

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dan hill

05-07-2007 03:33:48




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to Muskie, 05-05-2007 17:33:49  
Your meter is working fine.You need to hit the books.



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Muskie

05-07-2007 14:58:58




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to dan hill, 05-07-2007 03:33:48  
Ahhhhh... Well that's good to know... sorta. LOL. Which explains why I'm here.

Muskie



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Bob

05-05-2007 17:09:56




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to cotton, 05-05-2007 16:14:35  
Using an analog voltmeter, check the voltage across the battery terminals BEFORE starting the engine, then AFTER it's run for a bit, HOPEFULLY charging the battery. Post back with the numbers.

(MANY digital voltmeters are confused by all the "electrical noise" from the charging and ignition systems on these old machines, and MAY give erratic readings, hence the advice to use an analog voltmeter.)

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Dunk

05-05-2007 17:39:40




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to Bob, 05-05-2007 17:09:56  
Bob, ??

Is cutting that wire, not the same, as far as the genny is concerned, as removing the battery from the tractor?

Does it not need to be polorized?

I know you know the answer to that.



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Bob

05-05-2007 18:59:10




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to Dunk, 05-05-2007 17:39:40  
If a generator has been working, disconnecting the battery or disconnecting (cutting) the loop ammeter lead won't affect the generator at all. (NO need to polarize just because the battery or ammeter were temporarily disconnected.)

With the engine stopped, the cutout or cutout section of the voltage regulator is "open", and there's NO battery power to the generator, anyway.

HOWEVER, if the system was NOT previously functioning, polarizing it MAY get it charging again.

Sitting unused for a LONG time, or disassembly of the generator often necessitate polarizing of the generator, as well as if a battery has been connected backwards, and the engine has been started.

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A. Bohemian

05-05-2007 21:27:45




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 You, Sir, are Correct! in reply to Bob, 05-05-2007 18:59:10  
Quote: "If a generator has been working, disconnecting the battery or disconnecting (cutting) the loop ammeter lead won"t affect the generator at all. (NO need to polarize just because the battery or ammeter were temporarily disconnected.)"

Absolutely. Otherwise we"d have to polarize EVERY time we changed a battery.

If we DID have to polarize everytime we changed a battery, I"ll bet everyone would know how to do it in their sleep and their wouldn"t be so many questions about it.

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Dunk

05-05-2007 19:36:44




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 Re: ammeter... previously posted in reply to Bob, 05-05-2007 18:59:10  
Thanks Bob, I knew, you knew the answer.

And it answers exactly what I asked you very well.

I couldn"t deal with that genny x 3 @ $65 ea.

I guess I am just a rectified AC kinda guy.



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