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8N starter spins and won't engage.

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riverbendfarms

05-08-2007 14:42:24




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My 6V 8N starter is acting up today.
after cranking it alot in the last 5 days while experiencing points problems the starterwont engage.
I got the tractor running last night and it ran for 1 hour flwalwessyl.
But today when i tried to restart the starter is just spinning.
I read somewhere that it could either be points incorrectly set or ring gear teeth on starter are worn.
Anyone care to add aan idea to my problem?
It finally is running and now this???
i'm starting to look for a near by cliff.....

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Bruce (VA)

05-08-2007 18:41:01




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 14:42:24  
You've got a bad bendix or worn teeth on the ring gear. As others have said, check the ring gear, but it's probably the bendix. Make sure you get the new clutch type replacement bendix. If you have never pulled a starter on an N, here's how:

To remove the starter, unscrew the bolts out of the block & put a nut on one of them. Otherwise, the starter comes apart. Not fatal, but not fun either. Then, loosen the two bolts holding the oil filter canister to the block, remove the dipstick, and keep the starter close to the block while pushing the front of it down and lifting the back up. Sometimes you have to remove the drain petcock as well.The bendix is behind the flywheel; your job is to get it over the flywheel.

To install the starter, keep it close to the block while pulling the front of it up and pushing the bendix back into the hole. The bendix has to go behind the flywheel; your job is to get it over the flywheel. Grinding out an egg shape at the 2 o'clock position before you put it back will make your life easier.

Lastly, while the starter is off, polish the block & starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground between the two, and clean the mating surfaces where the starter's "belly" meets the aluminum endbell. The starter's ground circuit is through that "joint" as well was through the starter endbell-to-flywheel housing joint.

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Ramrod

05-08-2007 18:10:14




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 14:42:24  
It's not your points. It's your starter/bendix/flywheel. The starter is an electric motor, the flywheel is a great big gear that is bolted to the backside of the engine, and the bendix is like the starter motor's transmission that engages the flywheel and turns the engine over. You engine is good, your starter motor is good, but it won't engage the flywheel and turn the engine over. The bendix is a common problem with these old tractors, and there is an old type and a new type (replace it with the new type). Get that starter outta there and send us a pic of the bendix or just tell us all about it. Locate a good alternator starter shop near you and take it there for repair, or take it to your CNH dealer parts guy for help with replacement parts. It's an easy fix to replace the bendix. Man, I admire your perseverance, keep it up.

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riverbendfarms

05-10-2007 09:09:06




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to Ramrod, 05-08-2007 18:10:14  
Thanks for the reply RAMROD.
I can't give up on this old girl.... she stll has alot of life in her yet.
So last night I tried again on the battery and the starter spins.
So i boosted it from my jubilee tractor and it fired up instantly.
So could weak cranking amps not be engaging my starter?
as soon as it had enough juice it catches and fires instantly.
Any ideas on why that is?
Again thanks for all your replies.
Sincerely appreciated...

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Ramrod

05-10-2007 09:28:15




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-10-2007 09:09:06  
That tells me your starter is not spinning fast enough to force the bendix out via centrifical force to engage the flywheel without the jump. This is actually good news, it's not the flywheel. Charge the 8N's 6v battery, clean up all the battery cables and connections, including the bolting surfaces for the starter (that's the starter's ground) and make sure the 6v battery cables are BIG enuff (bigger than your thumb they tell me) and try it again. If it still refuses to engage with the 6v system, pull the starter and see what gives, usually it's a sticky dirty bendix, but your starter is new I think, so eyeball it and let us know what you see if you get this far before you fix it. Is your Jube 6V too?

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Bob

05-08-2007 15:23:59




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 14:42:24  
If the starter is running, without cranking the engine (turning it over), likely the starter drive ("Bendix") has fallen off or self-destructed.

To rule out a damaged section of the ring gear, be SURE the ignition is "OFF", then turn the engine over a bit by tugging on the fan belt, using the crank (if you have one), or rolling the tractor a little ways with it in HIGH gear.

Then, see if the starter will engage. If not, the starter will have to come off. A quick search of this site for "removing starter" will give you the details of that.

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riverbendfarms

05-08-2007 15:39:06




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to Bob, 05-08-2007 15:23:59  
The starter only spins when i push switch. its just not catching the flywheel and spinning freely.
It did this before but usually catches after 3-4 tries but his time it just spins.
do i need a new starte or is it point gap. points are .025 gapped and it runs fine so i dont know if it is point gap?
please help!!!



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Ross Pugh(NC)

05-08-2007 16:30:24




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 15:39:06  
Since ye say it has done this before but usually catches and starts, I would say ye probably have a worn place on ye ring gear. Look on the side of the bell housing opposite of the starter and ye will see a little teardrop shapedcover over a hole. swing this cover to the side and with the tractor out of gear use a big screwdriver and leverage to turn the gear that ye see in that hole. It is attached to ye flywheel. Turn it two or three times. then try ye starter and see if it will catch this time. Post back on what happens and we can go from there.

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Bob

05-08-2007 15:43:15




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 15:39:06  
Breaker point gap has nothing to do woth the starter engaging the flywheel ring gear, and cranking the engine.

You'll have to pull the starter, and have a look at the drive.



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riverbendfarms

05-08-2007 15:48:47




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to Bob, 05-08-2007 15:43:15  
Ok..
I will do that this evening and check it out.
I might have killed the starter with so many attempts this week.
I'll post back with the reults..
thanks.



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Matt Czarnecki

05-08-2007 15:23:08




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to riverbendfarms, 05-08-2007 14:42:24  
Same thing happened to my 2N this morning! Pulled the starter and found that the pinion gear on the bendix slid away from the barrel assembly. I jammed it back in place, tried to start the N again and the same thing happened. Got a good fix on the second try and kept the N running until I was done mowing. I just ordered a new starter drive (bendix) for mine. Do I have to preload the bendix when installing it?

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RP-40-9n

05-08-2007 15:38:30




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to Matt Czarnecki, 05-08-2007 15:23:08  
matt, dont do anything, dont twist it or bang on it, or you will likely be buying another one. they come ready to mount, if you get it unloaded you got problems. RP



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Matt Czarnecki

05-08-2007 15:47:16




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 Re: 8N starter spins and won't engage. in reply to RP-40-9n, 05-08-2007 15:38:30  
Thanks for the reply and info. I was going by what the local NH parts man told me about having to preload!



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