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Started Problems!!

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jarhead0861

05-19-2007 12:51:07




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Ok Boys...been a few days, but I got my motor back from he machine shop last night and have the tractor all back together. BUT...when I hit the starter...I just get a single "click". Any ideas? Seems like I remember the started acting funny right before I tore it down. Help please...wife wants this tractor out of the garage! LOL

Thanks guys!




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Jack Lavallet

05-19-2007 18:37:35




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
Assuming you still have a starter problem, lemme try... Tractor in neutral!!! Have you taken the starter COMPLETELY OFF the tractor, put it in a vise (hold it tightly - lots of torque) and "jumped" it? (Ground attached anywhere on the starter body, hot wire attached to the insullated lug on top.) What happened? If the starter just sat there, it's bad. Take it to a shop for a rebuild. If it spun up, it's likely OK, so we need to find another problem. Put it back on the tractor. You've already cleaned the paint off for a good contact. Now hook up the ground jumper cable - no paint!! - and touch the hot jumper cable to the insullated post, just like in the vise. It should work if it did in the vise. If it doesn't the starter is in a bind. Is anything "forced?" Over tightened mounting bolts? Paint making an uneven mounting surface? Next most likely spot is the battery posts and cable terminals. Clean and tight, you say? New cables? OK. Connect the battery back up. Next is the starter switch and solenoid wire. The switch sends juice to the solenoid, which then closes and connects the battery current directly to the starter (just like in the vise.) You need to see if the ignition voltage is getting to the solenoid. Take the small wire off the solenoid, turn the key to start and touch the wire to a ground. Sparks? Its OK. Nothing? Problem is either in the switch or wire. Now using jumper cables, ground to the tractor someplace and touch the hot jumper cable to the small post on the solenoid where you removed the small wire. If the starter spins, the solenoid is OK and the wire or switch is the problem. If nothing, check that the solenoid body is grounded to the starter body - sometimes with another wire, sometimes through the metal mounting feet. Clean off new paint under the solenoid!! Try again. If OK, problem is definately in the wire or switch. Hook everything back up, and touch the hot jumper cable to the starter post on the ignition switch - usually the center post, sticking out a bit. If the starter works, the problem is the switch. If not, you've got either a bad wire from the battery to the switch, or from the switch to the solenoid. Is there a starting resistor in the circuit? That can interrupt the starting circuit. Just "connect the ends" and jump through the resister. It'll be OK for a while. If that works, problem is a burned resistor. Easy to replace. So, how'd we do?

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2nforever

05-19-2007 15:24:52




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
It sounds like it is time to take the starter out and test it. If you have a vice that is big enough to hold the starter then clamp it in hook up your jumper cables ground first to the starter body. I usually use the stickey out part in the back. Since it is painted make sure you wiggle the jumper cables to scratch the paint and make a good connection. The you can just touch the hot jumper cable to the starter input bold. If your starter is good it should zing when you make contact.

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Den N Ms

05-19-2007 15:08:31




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
Did the starter come of fall apart when you took it off? If did you may not have it back together right,brushes?



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jarhead0861

05-19-2007 14:51:16




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
ok..sanded down the area where the bell houseing and starter go together...all the way to shinny metal. Still getting nothing. No click, no clicks, absolutly nuffin!

So, am I looking at a bad starter or a bad starter solinoid?



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Dunk

05-19-2007 15:02:55




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 14:51:16  
I told you below how to test your starter with a 12 volt battery, and a pair of jumper cables.

That eliminates everything else, and puts the question right to the starter.

You might also try bumping the starter softly with a hammer.

third party image



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jarhead0861

05-19-2007 14:31:10




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
OK..I went through useing my dremmil tool and cleaned all connection to shinny medal. Dell, now I understand what you mean and fixen to head back in the garage to sand down that area. I did not know that that was how the starter grounds. Makes perfect since now. As of right now...I'm getting nothing....no a click....spark inside the starter....nothing.



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jarhead0861

05-19-2007 13:32:05




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
OK, i tried the pushing it in 4th gear and see if the fan spins.....and no...it doesn't. All my batt cables are new. I sanded the neg batt ground down to shinny metal and mounted it on one of the stearing houseing bolts. Battery is fully charged. Tried jumping it. I'm stuck! I don't understand these old starters...and Dell...not sure what you mean by pulling the starter out a little bit and wirebrushing the gap. Can you elaburate? Thanks guys!

BTW...this motor just came back from the shop and has been completely rebuilt and machined.

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Poot

05-19-2007 14:29:57




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 Jarhead........... in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 13:32:05  
third party image

This is the "gap" Dell is refering to. Whare the starter bolts the tranny.



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Dell (WA)

05-19-2007 13:49:16




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 13:32:05  
Jarhead..... ..like I said, you didn't give me much to work on. I flunked mind reading, just ask my ex-wife of 32yrs.

You write..... ..."Dell...not sure what you mean by pulling the starter out a little bit and wirebrushing the gap. Can you elaburate? Thanks guys!

BTW...this motor just came back from the shop and has been completely rebuilt and machined." ..... ...I remembered you had taken yer engine into a machineshop for rebuild. Many machineshops as matter of course, PAINT the outside of the engine block. (which includes the STARTER HOLE)

Yer starter needs to make a bare-metal ground connection to the castiron tranny housing. That is WHY I suggested you remove yer 8in starter bolts and slide the starter out about 1/4". You will have a GAP between the end of the starter motor and the HOLE in the tranny housing. Use a WIRE-BRUSH to really CLEAN any paint between the starter and the tranny. UNDERSTAND???..... ..Dell

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Dunk

05-19-2007 13:42:40




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 13:32:05  
Your starter could be bad..

Dell is talinkg about cleaning the starter and the block where they bolt together, that is how your starter grounds.

One more thing you might try...

Make sure it is out of GEAR!!

Hook your jumper cables to your 12 volt car/truck battery, hook one to the terminal on the starter, and then touch the other to ground, that should spin the starter quite good.



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Dunk

05-19-2007 13:54:12




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to Dunk, 05-19-2007 13:42:40  
I sometimes have problems thinking from a newby perspective.

"touch the other to ground" means anywhere on the tractor away from the battery and sheetmetal.

Any bolt on the cast iron should do.



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Dell (WA)

05-19-2007 13:08:16




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
Jarhead..... ...you don't give much to work with, do you??? It don't take many volts to make a starter solenoid click. but RUSTY SHEETMETAL grounds will stop a starter COLD.

Remember the MANTRA: "keep'em clean, brite'n'tite". And don't use wimpy 12-volt cables. Use 'arry-chested one-ought (1/0) thick as yer thumb cables. Check the cable insides of the molded battery clamps for CORROSION. Iff'n in doubt, replace'em $10 (cheap)

Then loosen yer 8in starter bolts and puller-out for about 1/4" and wire-brush the gap, and yer starter motor should "ZING"..... ..Dell

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Dunk

05-19-2007 13:04:56




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 12:51:07  
Check these 2 topics.


Link



Link


 



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jarhead0861

05-19-2007 13:09:59




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to Dunk, 05-19-2007 13:04:56  
thanks Dunk...already been going through the archives looking for a solution. This sucks! I have done so much work to this tractor....now just to have it just "click" when I try and start it.



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Dunk

05-19-2007 13:13:41




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 Re: Started Problems!! in reply to jarhead0861, 05-19-2007 13:09:59  
The bottom link doesn't seem to work, and I don't seem to be able to make one that does.

It is to a topic by Poot on page 7



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