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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer

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AnvilheadTX

05-23-2007 15:11:02




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When converting a front mounted 8N to 12 volts, is an ignition reducer needed when a 12 volt coil is used....or only when the 6 volt coil is left on the tractor. There is some great stuff on the Internet on conversions, but this particular issue continues to be confusing.




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AnvilheadTX

05-23-2007 19:00:20




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:11:02  
I appreciate all your help. I did read Soundguy's article in the N-News. That also helped.



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Bruce (VA)

05-23-2007 16:26:33




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:11:02  
Check out the article by Soundguy on page 5. Kim will son be posting it on this site, but for the time being, it is in the N-Newsletter.

http://www.n-news.com/inside.html



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duey

05-23-2007 15:26:10




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:11:02  
It depends... reducers are used in plumbing... resistors are used in electrical. It depends if you have a true 12 volt coil like the NAPA IC-14 or whatever the number is... or if you have a 12 volt coil that needs to keep the 14 volts tamed down a bit. (All 12 volts systems are at 14 volts when charging.)

The NAPA coil does not need a resistor.

If you are using an original style 6 volt square coil, you need enough resistor to where the voltage to the coil is approximately 3 volts... WHERN THE POINTS ARE CLOSED. If the points are OPEN, the circuit will read battery voltage.

This IS electricity in it's most basic form... and the basic rules apply... they ALWAYS apply.

Have fun.... duey

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AnvilheadTX

05-23-2007 15:42:38




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to duey, 05-23-2007 15:26:10  
Duey - respectfully....the diagrams I have studied indicate BOTH a Terminal Block (also referred to as a Resistor by some) as well as an Ignition Resistor (General part number RU100) (sometimes called a Voltage Reducer). The article I am referring to is a very detailed piece by "John the Old Tractor Guy and Llama, his sidekick".

I was not 100% clear on my original post so this may clarify....
Terminal Block (aka Resistor) - Understood to be required for any 12V converstion.
Ignition Resistor (aka Voltage Reducer) - this is what I want to clarify - is this device required for a 12 volt conversion in which I would be using a 12 volt coil?

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas - I am a better plumber than an electrician.

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Phil (NJ,AZ,SasK)

05-24-2007 19:37:11




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:42:38  
AvilheadTX, The only Coils that will work with the OEM Ballast (Term Block) also need the additional Ignition Resistance, they are the OEM 6 Volt, and 2.5 Ohm 12 Volt Coil.

The 4 ohm 12 volt coil will not work with a OEM Ballast. These require the Dell .5 ohm.

I would just measure the Ohms of Your Coil and if its 2.5 Ohm (it seems most are this type) You would use the OEM Ballast & an Ignition resistor of a fixed value (near) ~1.0 ohm.

If you have an Ammeter on your Dash just bump your starter until you read Max Discharge(points Closed) and the correct current will be closer to three (3) than it is to two (2). This will be the same for "ALL" the front Mount coils regardless of voltage applied.

Hope this Helps,

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soundguy

05-23-2007 19:01:06




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:42:38  
The link bruce posted is quite informative.. but I'll type it out again.

oem 6v front mount coil, on a 12v system needs the OEM balalst resistor AND a dropping resistor similar to an 8NE10306.

non-oem 12v front mount coil on a 12v system = read packaging that came with coil. There are at least a couple kinds out right now. Some like a 1/2 ohm dropping resistor made with a couple 1-ohm resistors paralleled together.. Some like the OEm ballast resistor.

If your 12v coil came with no info.. then complain to the supplier.. you paid good money for it.. the least they could do is have manufacturer info / specs listed for it. if in doubt.. use the the OEM ballast resistor and see what performance you get.

Soundguy

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roger '40 9n

05-23-2007 16:31:09




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:42:38  
On the 8N side mount the "terminal block" does not have a resistor.

On the front mount with 6 volt coil you need a balast resistor -- the convient place to mount one is on the terminal block.

On a front mount 6 volt square can coil using a 12 volt system you need both the original balast resistor AND a voltage reducing resistor. If you use a "12 volt" coil you need about 1/2 ohm of resistance to limit the current flow so as to not melt your coil. (It's because it IS a 12 volt coil and your alternator puts out about 14.5 volts when running). You need one rated for 20 watts (or more) else it is gonna melt.

You can think of voltage as pressure and amps as flow. Resistors work as restrictors in the line.
If you have pressure and no flow through a pipe as when it is shut off down stream then you will have the same pressure on both sides of the restrictor -- if the water is flowing then you will have a pressure drop accross the restriction (oriface). That is why you should get battery volts at the coil with the points open and less than that with them closed.

(You can also think of the spark system as a water hammer situation -- Shut off a large flow of water fast and bang the pipes rattle and a big pressure surge happens)

HTH Roger in Michigan

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MikeT

05-23-2007 16:26:41




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:42:38  
My 12V round can coil, which I bought at the local tractor store, is clearly labelled on the outside "Does not need external resistor". So, I didn't use one and it's working great.



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DanL-Colorado-9N252085

05-23-2007 16:22:25




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 Re: 6V to 12V - Using an Ignition Reducer in reply to AnvilheadTX, 05-23-2007 15:42:38  
But it still depends on what coil you use.

You see, there are 12V coils that require NO resistor; then there are coils used on a 12V vehicle that still need a resistor.

What I understand is that if you use the recommended NAPA coil (Dell or someone will have the exact part number, or you can search this site), you won't need one. If you use anything else, you'll have to make the call yourself based on any tech data you can find on the coil.

I know this is technically a "non-answer", but it really DOES depend...

Good luck. Someone here'll add the detail you need, I'm sure.

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