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8n Starter/electrical problem

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Alan8n

06-21-2007 07:47:34

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I have a 52 8n 6 volt that ran well when I parked it. When I try to start it now, it will not turn the engine over. The Starter actually stalls. If I pull the plugs out it will turn the engine over fine, but each time I put 1 plug back in I notice that it has a hard time on that cylinders compression stroke. Things I have tried: fully charge battery, different battery from my Jubilee ( which turns over fine ),rebuilt starter, new starter, clean all terminals battery connections, no fluid in pistons. I assume that I have a current problem to the starter but I can't figure out how or why. Does anyone know how much current the starter should draw and is there an easy way to check it? Or ANY other suggestion/opinion as to what could be my problem. Thanks....Alan

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Phil (NJ,Az,Sask)

06-21-2007 10:27:25

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 07:47:34

[quote] Does anyone know how much current the starter should draw and is there an easy way to check it? [/qoute]

I am with DELL on this replace them.
Assume +ve battery Ground:

The only way to check the cables is with a volt meter. You would connect the -ve meter Probe to the Battery POST HOT (and leave it connected) and then use the +ve meter Probe to measure the Voltage Drop when the "Starter is engaged".

1. +ve meter probe to Starter Solenoid Connection (reading must be less than 1 volt, more like .3 volts.

2. Move the +ve meter probe to the battery solenoid connection (reading must be less than 1 volt, more like .2 volts

The Ground cable: You connect the +ve meter probe to the Battery +ve

post and then use the -ve meter probe to test VD

1. the -ve probe to starter frame (reading must be less than 1 volt, more like .2 volts

Hope this Helps,

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souNdguy

06-21-2007 11:52:36

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Phil (NJ,Az,Sask), 06-21-2007 10:27:25

Phill.. that real good test set you just posted is likely to NOT be used.. because the average electrical newbie is not going to understand your technobabbel like 2-3 of us here do.

I.e. you typed a page of instructions just to type them.

The user that has enough electronics training to understand your technobabbel will have already known to make a voltage drop test across the battery cables ( shunt voltage drop ).

You mean well.. but 98.362% of your advice is displayed in a manner that the average non engineer is not going to understand it.. +ve / -ve.. for pete's sake.. just tell them to put their red or black or + or - meter probe where you want it and take the votlage reading.. etc..

Soundguy

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Alan8n

06-21-2007 12:52:13

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to souNdguy, 06-21-2007 11:52:36

FWIW...I am familiar with meters and things electrical and fully understood the troubleshooting idea. Unfortunately for me, my tractors are not in my backyard, they are 3 hours away(one way), and I usually only have a few hours to spend working on the tractors, as opposed to doing work with the tractors. So when I ask a question it is because I value the experience of the people here, and hopefully come away with ideas that I did not immediately think of myself(thus saving a trip to try out another idea). Sometimes, for those of us who do not work continuously on our tractors, the things we think of as obvious are not the cause of the problem, and the solution winds up to be something a little out of the ordinary. In any event I always appreciate any and all comments as you never know which ones will be the one that helps you the most..... .Thanks...Alan

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souNdguy

06-21-2007 13:05:16

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 12:52:13

It's great thaat you understood it. However.. there are many more members here that can't even wire up a set of headlamps.. the archives are full of these messages day in and day out. By and far.. electricals confuse the heck out of people by a huge factor vs plain old wrench turning.

Soundguy

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Dell (WA)

06-21-2007 09:30:55

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 07:47:34

Alan..... ..yer 6-volt battery draws 150-AMPS. Ain't very many ammeters that can measure that directly.

Yer very noticable slowdown of starter motor when you install a plug indicates you have a BAD CONNECTION somewheres. Why? 'cuz yer starter motor runs just fine "un-loaded" by compression.

REPLACE BOTH yer battery cables. DONT ARGUE, REPLACE'em with heavy-duty one-ought (1/0) thick as yer thumb cable. Why? 'cuz yer molded clamps have INTERNAL corrosion from battery acid fumes eatin' at the main conductor interface..... ...Dell

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dan hill

06-22-2007 03:50:38

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Dell (WA), 06-21-2007 09:30:55

I have two induction ammeters that I used for 50 years.My latest tool catalog has one that measures generator and alternator current and has a scale for starter current.6.00 bucks.A friend uses one on his wind generators battery bank.

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souNdguy

06-21-2007 08:03:16

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 07:47:34

Lets see..

Checked with a known good battery... good

Cleaned cables and connections.. pretty good.. though do check the cable for internal corrosion.. and that the cable is 1/0 for 6v.. not a wimpy 4ga for 12v.

Rebuilt and replaced starter.. (ouch! ) Have you buffed the mating area where the starter goes into the block to make sure it is getting good connection? Same with the battery ground cable?

Have you tried turning it over by hand to make sure that there is no binding in the engine itself.. like a seized bearing?

Soundguy

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Alan8n

06-21-2007 08:09:40

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to souNdguy, 06-21-2007 08:03:16

If I took the plugs out and it turns over fine, wouldn't that indicate theat mechanically there is no binding ?

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souNdguy

06-21-2007 08:21:38

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 08:09:40

How long did you wait.. there was no time frame listed. A heat seizing can go away in a short amount of time as soon as tolerances open back up..

Soundguy

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old

06-21-2007 08:00:12

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Re: 8n Starter/electrical problem in reply to Alan8n, 06-21-2007 07:47:34

Soulds like you have bad battery cables. What happens some times and you can't see it is the cables brake down over time and when they do that you get the type of problem you have. Replace them and make sure you get the right cables use 0 or 00 battery cables, the one you find made for cars/trucks will not work on a 6 volt system so you may have to make them your self, but any good auto parts store should have the stuff you need to make them

Hobby farm

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