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OT but maybe people with pond can help?

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Britcheflee

09-06-2007 12:52:44




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We have a big pond - you can put a small boat on it a putt around fishing for bass and bluegill. The water comes in from springs further up the valley and the pond has a big retaining dam - pond was put in many many years ago maybe 40-50 years. This year the pond is down. Found leak at base of dam and that is directly in line with old shut off valve which is now rusted and partially collapsed along with the old wooden walkway to it.

Neighbour up stream cleared out his pond so whilst this is filling we are not getting any water - previously the input exceeded the output so we did not have a problem - but this leak is slowly draining the pond and I want to fix it.

I am 99.9% certain the leak is coming through the old rusted pipe which went through the dam at this point.

Now, to stop the leak? of course I have been given a lot of varied advice.

However, the main theme is dont dare touch that old pipe. I am thinking of getting a huge load of rock and pour that in all around that area to make a smooth wall and cover that pipe up completely. Then lay over this a weighted extra heavy duty pond liner (like for koi ponds) maybe 100ft by 50 - then get a back hoe and put a load of mud, dirt and clay from other area of pond.

What do you think?

Output flow is a small 'spring' and not a rushing torrent.

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redbanksdog

09-07-2007 07:43:44




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
This message board might be able to help you. It"s called Pond Boss, I have been reading it for about five years. Lots of helpful people on the board, kind of like the people on this great board Link



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Iron Rose Farms

09-06-2007 23:14:22




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
Be careful who you involve in this. A very good friend of mine had a 4 acre pond, the dam began to leak and he called the extension agency who came out and seamed very helpful at first. Two weeks later he had official paper work served to him stating he had to remove the dam and pay a fine of $20,000 for illegal daming of a waterway.
The dam was built by his great grandfather in late 1800's using a team of horses and lots of hand shoveling. The base of the dam was slightly more than 18 feet and the top had eroded to just a little over 4 feet wide and stood 8 feet tall at the center. After hiring a lawyer he got out of the fine but not out of removing the dam. The leak was caused by a temporary support wall of logs that was buried in the dirt berm that had decayed allowing the dam to settle and begin to break down.

Good luck

James

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Britcheflee

09-07-2007 02:19:11




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Iron Rose Farms, 09-06-2007 23:14:22  
Yikes!

Well, spent an exhausting afternoon clearing the top of the dam of old willow and brush - now for the scary bit - I have to cut out two main 'shoots' of an oak tree which has 4 shoots - two are a problem as they are growing across the dam and literally with one you have to duck to get under it - if either of these fall it will rip a huge chunk out of the side of the dam - problem is, they are big - cant get my arms around the base on either of them - going to either get the IH with the winch or the 8N with a chain and climb up there and cut it out piecemeal - very scary though!!!

Then we have a tip up trailer and I am thinking of renting a back hoe and digging out the mud and clay (we fortunately have that red clay soil here) along with about 10 bags of cement and start dumping that in there - I want to dig out the soil by the side of the pond away from the dam anyway to make a deeper area for boat launching and running my irrigation pump.

I am going to stay away from the California Government for the moment as that might just open a can of worms.

Lee

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Peter, Covington, LA

09-06-2007 20:57:11




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
If I understand correctly, you are fairly certain your leak is around the pipe going through the dam, which is not usable as a drain because of its condition, so you don't mind clogging it up. Right?

Trying to balance probable success with cost---

I think the best solution would be to get a local concrete company to deliver a full truck of fairly stiff mix, and dump it over and all around the drain inlet.

If conditions are such that a concrete truck can't essentially back up to the area and chute the mix to where it's needed, then I'd hire a concrete pump as well. They can literally put the snout of the pump's arm down in the water, right to where you want it, and simply pump out a huge plug for the drain and its surroundings.

You're probably looking at 600 - 800 bucks, if concrete there costs what it does here.

Concrete is "hydraulic cement," which means it will cure and harden when immersed in its own solvent (water). If you pour the 'crete stiff enough to stay where you put it, it'll harden right there.

Best of luck!!

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TimW(PA)

09-06-2007 18:12:47




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
Only thing about calling in the gubberment is that they may require extensive (read expensive) repairs/ modifications/ blah blah blah to meet some level of safetyness. I'd check on what jurisdiction they have BEFORE contacting them to look at your situation....But thats just me.....Hope you get it fixed....Tim



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Hobo,NC

09-06-2007 17:42:07




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
went threw this 2 years ago. Uncle had a tree removed from the damm, they threw it in the pond and broke the drain pipe. After I got a pump and drained it enuff to git down to the pipe threw the damm I was able to saw it off the up rite, unscrew the elbo (it was brass lucky me)I then put the brass elbo back on and a up rite pipe. It was no fun wast deep in dead fish, but it had to be done.

Well we still had a leak and it was behind the spill way. If you have a leak for sure you will see it on the other side. The spill way has been concreted. I have read a lot about this, talked to folks about this type of leak. Dump'n a load of clay mite do it. I was told that repairing a damm was not EZ its like welding, you have to remove material to B able to git the new clay to seal to the old, a iffy situation. I was told git hogs, or ducks any animal that will Waller in the mud that would seal the leak. I also was told of drillers mud a special blend of clay that mite seal the leak. Have'n nuttin to loose and a buddy with a big dump truck and a free supply of saw dust we dumped a loads of saw dust on the suspect area that was leak'in. well we missed the leak still had it. After a big rain I keep a eye on it till I could see were the water had a little swrill to it like a sink draining. I dumped another load their. I will say it still leaks but not much, very little, may have stopped it best I can tell now. We have went threw the driest August on record, been dry all summer. The pond is holding up well. I and my uncle irrigate out of it. One time I got lucky, hope my luck holds out. If not the brick yard will be out another load of sawdust. Yes they mix sawdust into the brick mix, it burns out and makes'em liter, some folks pay extra for the ruff look it will give the brick when to much has been put into the mix. Not sure if it goes on still, useing contaminated dirt was once used big time in the brick mix but i think they don't add it any more.

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Ross Pugh(NC)

09-07-2007 16:32:09




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-06-2007 17:42:07  
Hey, Hobo, if you can get some old or even some new hay on the water near that swirl it should waterlog and go down to the leak and help plug it up the same way as the sawdust, then you can put some clay soil on top of that to help keep it sealed. I have not tried this method, but it does make sense, don't you think?



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Hobo,NC

09-07-2007 17:45:41




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Ross Pugh(NC), 09-07-2007 16:32:09  
Well yes but hay is rite hard to come by and horse folk will kill ya for a bail of hay rite now. probably would be better to buy a horse shoot'em and throw it over the hole rite now.
The saw dust is werk'n rite well for now, I have the irrigation run'n full blast. It sure is dry around here how bout your way. we had 1/2" in the last 40 days. Back to the leak, its were the concrete ends and the dirt bank starts, just so happens there's a water oak rite their 'bout 10" in diameter so I spec the roots have grown under the concrete and gave the water a way yo wash out under it. Keep them pond damms clean,.

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Ross Pugh(NC)

09-09-2007 09:03:53




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Hobo,NC, 09-07-2007 17:45:41  
Yes, Hobo, that is the reason I said "old Hay" first. But what good is hay if you ain't got no water fer yhem to wash it down with? The hay should work better 'cause it would lay criss cross # over the leak. We got the same dry weather here too. I have had 2 decent rains in the last 3 months, I guess. One quicck hard rainof 1 inch about 3-4 weeks ago and it all ran off 'cause it was so fast. Then 1/2 inch about a week after that one. All too late for my crops. Worse garden I have ever had. Had to buy my okra, and only got enuf corn for our use and a couple of small bags to freeze. I did find a guy that had planted a lot of okra and bought twice from him, about 18 lbs. total for $1.25/lb. He was selling it for $1.50 but I got it cheaper 'cause I took 12 pounds the first time.

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old

09-06-2007 15:12:57




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
I would not use rock since water will flow right through that. Now on the other hand a load of clay in that area will stop the leak. But as others have said if you have a conservation dept etc they should be able to help you with ideas that fit your area. I my self have built a few ponds in this area and once you hit gravel your in trouble and the only fix it a good layer of clay

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Britcheflee

09-06-2007 15:57:04




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to old, 09-06-2007 15:12:57  
OK, thanks for feedback - there are indeed trees and dead trees on the dam so that also might be a factor - Ill make a call and see what they come up with.



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john hunt

09-06-2007 14:14:39




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
I would do little bit more research on this topic start with you your local county department see where that lead.. hate see you do something that cost later down road ...



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rd99

09-06-2007 13:45:15




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
Contact your local county extension agent, or the USDA NRCS office (>Link

The extension agent should be able to contact whatever university they are associated with in the state and get some reliable answers as to what to do. Earthen dams are part of the Agricultural and Biological Engineering departments study areas.

You don't have any trees growing in your dam do you? As the tree's die, or are cut down, their roots will decompose allowing a path for water to go from one side to the other.

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Brian Bell

09-06-2007 13:36:54




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 Re: OT but maybe people with pond can help? in reply to Britcheflee, 09-06-2007 12:52:44  
Why not concrete it? Concrete will cure under water.



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