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8N timing issue???

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Andy in NH

10-27-2007 14:14:30




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Last Saturday my 52 8N ran very rough for about a minute upon starting, but cleared right up. The following day it ran very rough upon starting and died after about 30 seconds. I have checked the gas and spark, replaced plugs, points, condenser, distributor cap, rotor & coil, but it still will not come back to life. There is now a nice bright spark, so it almost seems as if the timing has gotten off, or something is wrong in the carburator???

Any ideas are greatly appreciated

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Dell (WA)

10-27-2007 20:34:15




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 Re: 8N timing issue??? in reply to Andy in NH, 10-27-2007 14:14:30  
Andy..... ...unless ya been diddlin' with the distributor, timing don't suddenly change. Ruff runnin' at start-up is usually weak sparkies or FLOODED carburetor. You have described FLOODED carb as it cleaned up innna'bout 1-min. This rules out weak sparkies as they don't "fix" themselves, but a flooded carb will (kinda).

So because you don't understand, you have thrown a passel of parts unnecessarily and have caused yerself more grief. Now yer guessin' "timing". What else have you done that you're not tellin' us about???

First, PROVE yer sparkies are good. Will they jump a full 3/16" gap??? As a general rule, yer roundcan ignition coil is bullet-proof. Verify yer points gap is still 0.025", new points are known to loose their gap due to invisibly worn adjust screw threads. New SHORT #8x3/16 points screw is only $50c (cheap).

Handy tip: Ignition points on occasionally used engines will gitt "invisible contaminates" and cause weak sparkies that can be cleaned by drawing a dollarbill thru the gap and polishing the points. NOT YER PROBLEM. Besides you've already replaced yer points.

Based on yer description, yer current NON-START problem is probably still caused by FLOODED sparkies. Replace yer sparkies with NEW CLEAN DRY Autolite 437 sparkies gapped 0.025". DON'T ARGUE, do it!!! Why? 'cuz all yer crankin' has "flooded" yer current sparkies with "invisable" no-lead contaminates.

You don't haffta throw yer current flooded sparkies away. They can be cleaned and dried, one-atta-time, in a hot running engine and re-used later..... ....Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Bruce (VA)

10-27-2007 14:27:01




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 Re: 8N timing issue??? in reply to Andy in NH, 10-27-2007 14:14:30  
6v or 12v? It might make a difference in the troubleshooting.

Timing doesn't usually present a problem as you describe. Chances are it's a lot more simple like trash/water in the carb bowl or something going on in the distributor. If it has the same symptoms after you replaced all of those parts, I'm gonna guess that you haven't found the problem yet. The first thing you need to do is figure out if it's spark or fuel. How did you check for spark & fuel? Get an old plug, open the gap to 3/16, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the head, turn the key on & crank the engine. You have three possibilities: no spark, weak and/or intermittent yellow spark, or a bright blue spark. What is it? Next, check for fuel. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb.

Is the gas fresh? Any chance of water in it?

As a good rule of thumb, a 1 - 2 minute run times is usually the condenser, ballast resistor, or vacuum lock....or, failure to turn the gas on. A 5 minute run time is usually fuel screens. A 15 minute run time is usually the ignition switch. A one hour run time & then restarts after it cools down is usually the coil.

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Andy in NH

10-27-2007 14:44:03




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 Re: 8N timing issue??? in reply to Bruce (VA), 10-27-2007 14:27:01  
Sorry for not specifying, the tractor has a 12 volt, negative ground system. I get a good clean stream of gas out the bottom of the carb when I remove the plug, and I have probably drained off about a quart of gas to eliminate any possible water. The wide gapped plug produces a blue spark, but when you crank the motor over, there is no sign of it trying to catch.

I should also add that during the initial rough running period last weekend teh tractor produced some foul black smoke.

Thanks again for looking and responding

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Ross Pugh(NC)

10-28-2007 08:44:07




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 Re: 8N timing issue??? in reply to Andy in NH, 10-27-2007 14:44:03  
Foul BLACK smoke is definitely a sign off "flooding". Your fuel to air mixture was off when that smoke was showing. You were getting too much gas or too little air. If your gas is OK, like you say check for blocked breather pipe.



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Bruce (VA)

10-27-2007 19:28:36




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 Re: 8N timing issue??? in reply to Andy in NH, 10-27-2007 14:44:03  
Tried starting fluid?



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