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Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop

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GunPilot

11-03-2007 11:00:50




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All -
After getting my '49 8N going, I was able to raise the lift arms, but they would not lower. After a while I was able to lower them but now they won't raise. I've searched the archives and read up on this and have about concluded that I need to pull the pump and make sure the valves aren't clogged.
However....

With the dipstick side cover off, when I move the position control lever, I see that the rod that moves the control valve hardly moves back and forth at all. The movement is mostly up and down, which barely moves the valve rocker at all. A fraction of a millimeter. I can reach in and move the valve by hand. It moves a lot to the rear - that is toward the rear of the tractor, but seems to be pushed fully to the front.
My question is, what is normal movement of the control rod? Here are some more details:

The hydraulic pump worked previously, even before the resto. The lift I cannot say because the tractor did not come with lift arms and the lift had not been used in decades because it had an Everett trencher on it. The pump functioned because the tractor had a front blade that would raise and lower. Now, I cannot get hydraulic pressure at the port that the blade was previously hooked to.

The rod is not bent.
I rebuilt the lift cover because the cylinder was corroded out from years of non-use. It's possible I goofed the assembly so the control rod doesn't work but I don't see how.
There is no leakage inside when the pump is operating. It has a new NAA piston with the new cylinder.

There is no excessive turbulence around the relief valve. I did pull the pump and clean the sludge out of the cover area, and checked the relief valve, but did not replace it. I did not disassemble the pump.

The PTO is turning the pump and the pump has its proper movement.
Here's what I'm contemplating:

1. The valves in the pump are plugged from debris and sludge that got stirred up as a result of the rebuild. I tried to remove as much as possible but there was certainly areas that not all of it came out of.
2. I may have botched the assembly of the lift cover so that the control rod is not moving correctly.
So, I'm going to pull the pump, disassemble it and clean it. I'll reinstall it and see if the problem is cured. If not, then the lift cover comes off and I guess I'll look at that again.
Any thoughts, or checks I can make to save me pulling the lift cover?
Here's a link to a pic of the lift cover after I reassembled it. I know the pic is huge but I wanted the detail shown. Any obvious goof-ups?

Lift Cover Pic

Thanks,

George

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Hobo,NC

11-03-2007 19:17:20




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to GunPilot, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
third party image

I have often wondered is it just me B'n a quire ares are why have i never see were any one ask if they were spose to grind a relief @ 2 for the lift cylinder here on a replacement lift cylinder. all the originals have a flat casted on the back side but the replacements do not. With out the flat it does bind the draft linkage @ 1.

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GunPilot

11-03-2007 17:58:38




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to GunPilot, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
Woohoo!!! I have lift! The stuck valve was the whole problem. I diassembled the pump and cleaned everything up and put it all back in, and it works like a champ. It was obvious to me that it was going to work when I saw the rod moving the rocker back and forth like its supposed to. My lack of experience with that system tripped me up. I'll know better in the future.
I ran it up with the dipstick cover off, and I could see how the internals of the lift cover affect the rod, as I positioned the lift in various spots. I'm just stoked it works.

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GunPilot

11-03-2007 13:53:05




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to GunPilot, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
BTW I meant FO-4 manual third party imagethird party image



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GunPilot

11-03-2007 13:46:47




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to ricko700, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
Already didthird party image That's an older pic.
Well, I found something wrong with the pump - the exhaust valve was stuck in its bore. I had to use pliers and a fulcrum to get it out. It wasn't letting the rocker move back and forth. It may be the whole problem.
I'm going to eat some soup and then go out and reassemble the whole thing and see how it works.
BTW I did blow out the plumbing and it all works fine. I can even raise the lift with compressed air so I know it's getting there. Just gotta get some pressure to it third party image

-George

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Dunk

11-03-2007 14:06:42




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to GunPilot, 11-03-2007 13:46:47  
Good Deal!!



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OKDAD

11-03-2007 13:39:58




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to duckrock, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
Hey GP....You gonna change that bearing while your'e in there? Looks like a failure waiting to happen to me.



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GunPilot

11-03-2007 12:54:20




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to date code -- roger '40, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
Well, it could be in the plumbing, but not because of the plumbing, ie, that stuff got plugged up. That's a good point. I'm going to blow all that out while I have the pump out and make sure it's clear.
It's really just a valve that directs the hydraulic pressure either to the normal lift port in the lift cover, or out the hollow top bolt in the right side dipstick cover. I tried it both ways, and fluid should have come out the hollow bolt but nothing.
I have the pump out, and I'm fiddling with the control rod. With the pump removed it has a lot of fore-aft travel. I get it now, it's loaded against the spring. When the pump is in and the ball end of the rod is in place, just about all the spring travel is taken up - thus the little movement out of it. Starting to look like an adjustment of the lift cover to me - but that still doesn't explain the lack of hydraulic pressure.
BTW, I turned the pump while it was out of the tractor and it blooted oil out the discharge. Maybe Dunk's plumbing is involved after all...

PS. I do have the TO-4 manual and the hyd system pages are pretty greasy.

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Dunk

11-03-2007 11:28:24




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 Re: Hydraulic valve control arm movement? Lift inop in reply to GunPilot, 11-03-2007 11:00:50  
third party image

My bet is that your problem is in all of the aftermarket plumbing that was added onto you hydraulic system for that front blade.



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