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Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader)

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Dan in CO

11-07-2007 07:44:14




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First a little background;

When I was a Teenager in the 1960’s, My Dad had a 1941 9N on our hobby Farm in Wisconsin. The farm and all of the equipment was sold off when Dad passed in the early 90’s a couple of years after I had moved to Colorado. My Son & I remember the 9N as a sturdy worker and had a lot of fun putting it through its paces hauling firewood & plowing snow. Dad & I did most of the maintenance, but when it came to any heavy work such as new sleeves & rings or anything else that required splitting the tractor, we took it to an old guy named Milt with a one bay shed who would do it for us so I never thought that doing any of the internal work on the tractor should be done by an owner without the proper tools, jacks and lifts.
Now to the present;

In March of 2007, just after I retired, we moved from a tract home in Parker, Colorado (2 stories and a postage stamp yard, you know, the kind where when you want to walk between your house and the neighbor’s, you have to turn sideways)? We moved to a single level house in Castle Rock, Colorado on 6 acres for our retirement home. By mid-Summer, we decided to get a tractor, brush hog, and back blade. The Kubota’s, JD’s etc. were way outside the budget & besides, I remembered the N as being truly a workhorse & fun as well. Since I have restored old cars before (my 1953 MG TD) I thought it would be fun to work on an “N” again.

The one we looked at first was listed on Craigslist, saying it was a 1947 2N (my birth year) with a back blade for $2,450. When I went to see it, the guy seemed really honest. When I asked him how the brakes were, he replied, “Oh, they don’t work at all”. It turned out that they only needed to be adjusted. I bought the tractor & he agreed to deliver it to my new home if I paid full price, which I did. Once I got it home & really looked carefully, I found that it had a few “issues”:

· Gas tank about 1/3 full of “rusticles”

· Fuel shut off inoperable & missing handle

· Gas line plugged nearly shut with rust

· Carburetor about ½ full of crud. Causing it to run way too rich

· Front tires cracked & leaking air

· Right front wheel rusted out around air valve

· Starter safety switch by passed with a starter on the dash (very unsafe) The starter button had been cut short and the washer that engaged the rod to activate the starter switch was broken off

· Starter switch not working

· Hydraulics dropping pretty fast when clutch pushed in

· Lots of oil leaks like around the governor rods

· Manifold rusted so badly around # 4 exhaust port that the block & head were black (Manifold had to be replaced) and rust pits fairly deep in the block

· Battery held in place with a bungee cord

· All of the wiring (including the plug wires) with many bare spots

· Right side adjustable lift arm was a “farmerized” concoction and needed to be replaced

· PTO shaft hemorrhaging oil

· No lights at all

· Steering wheel duct taped & rusted through where the spokes meet the outer wheel

· Points, condenser, distributor cap and rotor all looked original

· Plugs were as black as any I have ever seen

· No thermostat at all

· Water passages in the block so full of crud I think I only got about 1 ½ gal out when I drained the cooling system.

Most of these “issues” have now been corrected with the expenditure of a lot of time (fun time with my son) and $ for parts. I was able to find a used starter button from John Smith. The rest of the parts were aftermarket purchased mostly from YT. I am afraid to add it all up, but I would guess that I have around $5,000 in the beast now, including the purchase price and repair bills.

The confession Part;

Here are the mistakes I have made:

· Should have kept looking or offered a lot less for the thing in the first place, although I have not seen any in our area for less, but I could have found one in better shape. It looked a lot like my Dad’s 9N and it was born the same year as I was. Emotion had no place in this decision.

· Should have had a better idea of what the cost of replacing & repairing all of the problems I found & should have found before I bought it. (There have been a number of lists posted here that are a great checklist of things to look for when surveying an “N”)

· Should have done more research on the “N” forum before I even started looking at N’s (this would have given me a checklist and warning of what I might find)

Now the really big mistake;

When I realized that the hydraulics would not hold an implement up once the clutch was in, I thought that the repair would be one of those that Dad would have sent to Milt (the guy who had all of the lifts etc.) to open the tractor up and really get into the guts, so I had a local JD dealer pick it up and gave them the job of fixing the lift problem and replacing the tires. Well, $1,100 and a month later they called to say it was done & delivered it the next day. When I got it home, the lift was no different; it starts to drop as soon as you push in the clutch with an implement on it. (I sent the tractor to them without an implement, but they said they had plenty to test it with). My guess is that they never tested it with any weight on the lift. By this time, I was educated on what to look for through the inspection plate on the right side. Sure enough, there was a lot of leakage coming down from the cylinder the dealer said they had rebuilt with a new piston and o-ring. When I called the dealer on the repair work they claimed they did, they said the old piston had a hole in it. Well if it did, I wonder what poked the hole? Maybe the culprit is still in there? The dealer agreed to re-do the work and came back to pick it up last week. So now I sit here at the computer with too much time on my hands wishing I had my “N” back so I could get on with the repairs that I know still need doing. Dam it, I wish I had done the cylinder rebuild myself. I could have saved a lot of money & had a lot of fun doing it!

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Carl (NH)

11-08-2007 05:27:10




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Well I am embarrassed now to think how much I overpaid to a dealer 25 years ago for my 8N. But it did come with a Wagner loader with down pressure, a hi-lo Sherman, a set of double ring chains, an attached weight barrel and two buckets for the Wagner: an original Wagner gravel scoop and 6' homemade snow bucket. Let's just say that if I sold it the whole shootin' match now, I'd break even....lol
It has been very good to me. I have paid for an engine rebuild, and clutch replacement. The thing I love about it the most is that it is such a simple vehicle really. That's important for a mechanically challenged person like me. And my father was an auto mechanic! But I inherited none of that ability, unfortunately.
Good luck with your hydraulics problem!
Carl

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John (TR)

11-08-2007 04:36:45




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Add another one to the list. I've bought and sold 7 or 8 now and I pay less for each one and still feel that way. I'm beginning to think someone needs to pay you to take them. I have a 641 now that I paid too much for. It supposedly needed a head gasket, ..... turns out I could swap that as I rebuild the motor.

Welcome to N world.
The ones I have kept that are not for sale are a 40 9n, 43 2n, 48/9 8n and a 55 TO35.

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OKDAD

11-08-2007 00:39:40




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to soundguy, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan....Great story. As Dan says "cheap therapy" and I'll bet you learn something new every time you work on it. I feel inspired to write another chapter on my "mission creep" project "Bettie".

Hang in there,

Ike



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Sean (TX)

11-07-2007 16:06:36




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Half the fun is digging in. I split it in 3 and just finished that about a week ago. Got in some seat time today :D had to move some dirt with the scoop... I have also stripped and repainted it. New brakes and rear axle bearings and seals.Had the FNH dealer do the rear axle bearings...cheap like 95 bucks...I got a torch right after that they come in handy..Dropped the pump while the tranny was apart and cleaned the 66 years of sludge out...Lift works better and the knock went away...

Sean (TX)

'41 9N79052

third party image

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HCooke

11-07-2007 15:36:46




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan, I've bought 5 of these and I'm no expert, but I have figured out that you can't ever get back everything you put into fixing up these machines. And they all need some fixing, even if they have just been "restored" by the previous owner. But like the other Dan points out it is good "therapy" and a good learning experience.
Lucky for me I've never had to have anything caried away to a dealer, but I do know of a couple of retired farmers who are glad to help out when needed.

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Dean

11-07-2007 14:55:09




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan:

Look at it this way: Where could you and your son have gotten an equivalent mechanical education for $2550?

Working on these old tractors is a labor of love for most of us, and hobbies usually do not result in financial return.

As for the purchase price: Prices vary widely by region. Perhaps you live in a region where Ns demand a higher price.

I do think you have learned a valuable lesson regarding the local dealer though. Both cost and quality of work sound out of line to me.

Dean

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Dan

11-07-2007 14:32:59




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
I wrote a story called "The Disease" that mirrors your story. I have torn my first 8N that I fell in love with down twice now - and my total expense exceeds yours I am sorry to say. However, I look at it this way - it is cheap therapy :-)

Stop by my website and read the story and check out the photo logs on my tractors. Good luck on yours.

Dan

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GB in MT.

11-07-2007 12:11:11




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Jeff-oh, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  


Dan;

Excellant reading!! Very good post! In fact I think, good enough to be placed in the YT, Articles under Research & Info.third party image

Very well thought out and written. Who knows, this may be the instrument that saves another person from making the same mistakes, and also save someone a whole lot of time, agony, and money in aquiring an "N" series tractor.third party image

JMO

Gary third party image

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soundguy

11-07-2007 10:15:43




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Good luck on the hyds. new gaskets, relief valve,and a 'top' end rebuild including new cyl and piston is under 200$ of parts and 8-9 hrs labor. If the pump needed internals.. you could do so for n additional 350 or so.. or use that to get a good used pump..However... I havn't seen too many that still pumped good that needed lots fo internals... etc.

Post back let us know how ya made out with the John theif dealer.

Soundguy

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AM-Seb

11-07-2007 12:35:59




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to soundguy, 11-07-2007 10:15:43  
Dan, let me commiserate with you. There was a Ford tractor dealer not far away. My 8N needed brakes. I called them; after all it was a Ford tractor wasn"t it? They"d know how to fix it, right? They came out with a diesel semi and took my little 8N away. Two weeks later I stopped by to find the N sitting in their yard. Another week or so they called that it was finished. I paid and the big semi brought it home. The cost: about $500. Results? All I saw as parts were retainers and gaskets. They"d power-cleaned the back half so that the paint was flaking off in spots; brazed or otherwise secured the oil filler tube to the block (didn"t ask for that!); and adjusted the valves. Less than two months late I noticed oil on the left axle nut. Idon"t think of myself as a vindictive person, but I"m happy to report they were out of business within a year. Angelo

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Art in Cortez, CO

11-07-2007 09:05:43




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan,

Great post! I truly enjoyed reading it and I can identify with everything you said as I went through a lot of the same problems this summer and I am still working on some others. I do enjoy working on the old girl and she is a '47 8N which is the same year as a an old Stinson Voyager airplane that I restored. I have also owned and restored a TD as well as a Morgan both of which I wish I still had along with a Shelby GT350 that I bought new off the showroom floor in 1967. All I have left is the 8N to play with but it constantly offers a real challenge.

Good luck with yours!

Art

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9NJoe

11-07-2007 09:02:34




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Man,

I thought I took a whoopin when I got mine, now I dont feel so bad! My 9N was running when I got it but I went through it with a fine tooth comb, told the guy I would pay his price of 2800 but he needed to get me all the parts I would need to fix it. He delivered it to my house and it began. Fortunately, he had done all the hydraulics and rear end stuff so that was a good thing, He ended up buying me a 12 v conversion, all the 3 pt. lift parts, and a radiator. Then I was happy. The next year, I noticed the engine was a little raggedy so I checked the compression, Never thought an engine could run on 45 PSI compression. So I bought a rebuild kit ($500)and tore it down. The next year the clutch went out. I think that cost me around $150. Split it and put her in. So over the years I guess I have about $3500 into her but she is pristine and just the way I want her!

Joe

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Colin King

11-07-2007 08:43:31




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 Re: Confessions of an �N� newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan, I sure did the same thing, despite doing a lot of research and carefully looking over the tractor. I purchased a "restored" 8N for $3,000. The breaks didn"t work, so I paid the dealer $400 to fix the breaks. So I walked away with a "restored" 8N and pockets feeling pretty light.

What I ended up with was a hastily applied paint job (that is now coming off), no charging system, a 2N engine, worn rings in #1, a leaking PTO seal, and a tractor that I absolutely love.

Moral of the story is that newbies like you and I have a roll to play - similar to our first love, our eyes can see only 1 thing, and our mental capacity fogs over - and a a devotee who will help ensure the future of the tractor is created.

Besides, we now know what to look for when purchasing tractors to add to our fleet. ;-)

Colin, MN

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dlplost

11-07-2007 08:41:31




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
"So now I sit here at the computer with too much time on my hands wishing I had my “N” back so I could get on with the repairs that I know still need doing."

So, what you are REALLY saying is that you need to go out and get ANOTHER "N" so you have something to do while your waiting for it to come back....

And yes, I have 2 of them myself..



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Danny in CO

11-07-2007 08:04:49




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Dan,

If you are having "withdrawal" from your N, come on down and play with mine. A really good time to come play would be the next big snowstorm! (grin)

Good luck with the repairs. I bet I know where you took it!

Danny



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Bob

11-07-2007 07:58:07




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 Re: Confessions of an “N” newbie (long reader) in reply to Dan in CO, 11-07-2007 07:44:14  
Ask them to SHOW you the old lift piston with the hole in it. Now, THAT would be interesting.

Are you aware of how THICK those things are? (The piston, not the dealer's HEAD!)



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