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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Doing the oil change and got a problem

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Osweld

02-05-2008 11:32:49




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Ok we were draining the oil and taking the filter out when I discovered that one of the bolts that holds the canister to the block is missing and broken off !

It is being held to the block with one bolt at the front of the mount. How big a problem is this ?

Will it be alright with just one and whats a good way to get the other out w/o breaking it ??
Thanks




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trucker40

02-06-2008 21:52:02




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
Best way left hand drill bit.If that dont work,if its jagged and you can get a small chisel to it,and you can use a hammer and chisel good and stay out of the threads you maybe can get it out like that.If it ever moves you can get it.They do make easy outs that work,but Snap On sells them and they cost a fortune.These easy outs that work have drill bits for the size bolt,guides to center the bit,you have to drill all the way through the bolt.After you do that,you drive the straight sided easy out into the bolt,then you slide something like a nut on it that only will fit that size easy out on it all the way down to the broke off part of the bolt(wont work real good if its broke off below the surface)and using the right size wrench try and take it out.You have to have nearly all of the bolt except maybe a sixteenth of a inch is all thats left and the blades of the easy out dig deeper as you turn.Most of the time they work,but if you break it off in there or it strips it out you are screwed maybe.Then I would build it out with weld,then weld a nut on it as thats all that you can do besides drill to the edge of the threads and pick it out.Thats not too easy to do and sometimes you mess up the threads.

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JMOR

02-05-2008 23:56:08




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Jeff in OH, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  

Osweld said: (quoted from post at 15:32:49 02/05/08) Ok we were draining the oil and taking the filter out when I discovered that one of the bolts that holds the canister to the block is missing and broken off !
It is being held to the block with one bolt at the front of the mount. How big a problem is this ?
Will it be alright with just one and whats a good way to get the other out w/o breaking it ??

Thanks


Left hand drill bits are good for removing broken bolts, especially when they are down in a recessed hole. Be sure you are centered or else drilling into the threads serves as a locker & then it can't spin itself out.

If broken off flush with surface or with a little protruding, then welding a nut to what remains is the best thing since sliced bread! The heating/cooling/expansion/contraction are as important as the access point for a wrench. BE SURE to keep that wrench OFF the nut as long as it takes you to finish a cool one!! Resist the temptation to wrench it while hot.

Easy-outs: well, the inventor, mfgr, salesman for these should all be lined up and given a good flogging!

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Dunk

02-05-2008 18:10:17




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to allisue, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  

Dell (WA) said: (quoted from post at 23:04:04 02/05/08) Osweld..... ...yes, run drill in reverse for left-hand twist drills. You haffta look hard (special order maybe) for L/H twist drills. Harbor Freight has them..... ..Dell


Left hand drill bits are worth their weight in gold for this.

Thank gosh they don't cost as much as gold.

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CENTAUR

02-05-2008 17:20:25




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
Always use left hand drills when removing a broken off bolt or stud as they tend to snag when hand drilling and it then acts like a remover and your troubles are over.If that does not work then drill out till you have a thin shell and the use a small ROUND NOSE chisel to cave in the side and your done.The pick is stronger then the suggested pick might be. CENTAUR



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osweld

02-05-2008 17:54:35




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to CENTAUR, 02-05-2008 17:20:25  
do you run the drill in reverse ?



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Dell (WA)

02-05-2008 18:04:04




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to osweld, 02-05-2008 17:54:35  
Osweld..... ...yes, run drill in reverse for left-hand twist drills. You haffta look hard (special order maybe) for L/H twist drills. Harbor Freight has them..... ..Dell



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russbWA

02-05-2008 14:25:46




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
There was a thread about head bolts a while back. One of the methods involved arc welding a washer to the portion of the remaining bolt. I never tried this and would be careful not to be welding/heating the block. It sounded reasonable to me at the time. Seems that maybe a nut was welded on after the washer, IIRC.



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LeeMo

02-05-2008 13:45:10




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
One bolt will hold it OK. I'd take a counterclockwise drill to the broken bolt and drill a hole in the center then use an easy-out to try to extract it..... .sometime when I felt like messing with it. It'll be OK with one bolt for now.



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osweld

02-05-2008 14:52:44




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to LeeMo, 02-05-2008 13:45:10  
why a left hand drill ?



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Dan

02-05-2008 12:50:24




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
Those bolts are suprisingly long, and fairly stout. Not sure how it could possibly get sheared off short of brute force. Anyway, there is very little stress on this canister and you should be fine short term. Do not try to use an ez-out on that sheared bolt - you will compound your troubles. You will need to carefully drill it out.

Dan



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osweld

02-05-2008 13:53:47




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Dan, 02-05-2008 12:50:24  
any clue a good way to get the other out w/o breaking it ?? How long and what thread are these ? Could I drill the bolt most of the way and re-tap it slightly smaller ?

I cant believe he oil upply line going to the filter is only that 1/4" line. It seems too dang small dia ....



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Dean

02-05-2008 14:41:54




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to osweld, 02-05-2008 13:53:47  
OS:

The oil filter on your N is a "bypass" type. Only a small portion of the oil is filtered. Hence the small inlet and outlet lines.

In the early days of oil filters this system was nearly universal.

I believe the bolt is a SAE 3/8x3/4.

Dean



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Dan

02-05-2008 14:18:30




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to osweld, 02-05-2008 13:53:47  
I don't have the stock length right here in front of me, maybe someone with a Parts Manual handy can fill that in. I just remember thinking it was rather long when I was removing mine a short while ago on a rebuild. The best way to get this bolt out is to center punch it EXACTLY in the center on the shered off bolt. Drill a pilot hole straight (make sure it is straight) into the bolt. Keep using bigger and bigger drill bits until you can just see the threads, then use a pick and remove the remaining bolt from the block threads (it will look like an apple peel coming from a peeler). This is the best, and surest way to remove broken bolts - trust me, I have proved this out.

People who suggest easy outs on sheared bolts have never tried to deal with one when it snapped off inside a bolt. They are very hard metal, and do not drill out as easy as the bolt. Only use an easy out when you are sure the broken bolt is not seized in the hole and will come out fairly easy.

HTH,
Dan

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Bruce (VA)

02-05-2008 11:56:14




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 11:32:49  
"....missing & broken off" is a contradiction. It can't be both. It's either not there, or it is broken off. Assuming the head is broken off, you need to tell us how much of the shank, if any, is visible. Post back & let us know. On the other hand, if it is truly missing, just get another bolt.

There is a reason it has two bolts. The canister will stay on the block for a while w/ one, so do plan on replacing the other.

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Osweld

02-05-2008 12:20:54




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Bruce (VA), 02-05-2008 11:56:14  
its broken off flush with the block, also how do I get the other out w/o brreaking it ? This seems like a big problem



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CENTAUR

02-05-2008 17:35:15




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 12:20:54  
To way to get anything out that is(STUCK)always give it a good sharp taps with a hammer.The sharp blow momentarily drives in what you are trying to remove and can be easily removed.This works good on carburetor parts also. CENTAUR



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Bruce (VA)

02-05-2008 14:17:18




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Osweld, 02-05-2008 12:20:54  
You're changing the oil, right? If so, you do not need to remove the good bolt now. Get some PB Blaster & hit it w/ that every now & then. As to the broken bolt, do the same thing. After a few days, take a center punch or the edge of a cold chisel & start taping the edge of the bolt ccw. Take your time; it will come out. Or, if you are really good & lucky as well, drill out the center of the bolt & use an easyout. Some people can do that; some people win the lottery.

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osweld

02-05-2008 14:56:05




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Bruce (VA), 02-05-2008 14:17:18  
hummm one guy said they are a long stout bolt then I hear a 3/8" x 3/4" not stout or long ??

Maybe i ought leave well enough alone ?



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Bruce (VA)

02-05-2008 15:50:34




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to osweld, 02-05-2008 14:56:05  
It's a 3/8"-16x3/4 bolt, p/n 20348-S8. That is a big bolt.



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osweld

02-05-2008 16:58:30




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 Re: Doing the oil change and got a problem in reply to Bruce (VA), 02-05-2008 15:50:34  
Hummmm seems rather small and short but ok



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