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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Hyd. oil

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Mike35

03-27-2008 06:33:06




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I've have a 52 8N with the original shop manual. It doesn't specify what weight hyd. oil to use. Any suggestions?

Thanks Mike




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Jerry/MT

03-27-2008 15:51:41




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Mike35, 03-27-2008 06:33:06  
John(UK), a regular contributor in the Ferguson Forum, has some info from Castrol that says you can use 15W30 motor oil in the Ferguson hydraulic system since GL-1 oils are apparently no longer manufacturered in the UK. Some people are using 10W30 oils in there Fergusons with no bad results so far and they fit the viscosity range of the original OEM oils. Since the hydraulics in the N series Fords are very similar(especially 2N & 9N) I would offer this info as something to consider.

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TheOldHokie

03-27-2008 16:18:35




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-27-2008 15:51:41  

Jerry/MT said: (quoted from post at 15:51:41 03/27/08) John(UK), a regular contributor in the Ferguson Forum, has some info from Castrol that says you can use 15W30 motor oil in the Ferguson hydraulic system since GL-1 oils are apparently no longer manufacturered in the UK. Some people are using 10W30 oils in there Fergusons with no bad results so far and they fit the viscosity range of the original OEM oils. Since the hydraulics in the N series Fords are very similar(especially 2N & 9N) I would offer this info as something to consider.


SAE 30 motor oil viscosity specification is 9.3-12.5 cSt @100C

SAE 80 gear oil viscosity specification is 7.0-11.0 cSt @100C

The viscosity is very nearly the same but the similarity ends there. Gear oils have very specific wear requirements that motor oils don't. The motor oil is probably fine in the non-syncro transmission but the spiral bevel gears in the diffy are a good bit more demanding. Now a GL1 has few if any anti-wear additives but before I switched to a motor oil I'd substitute a GL-2/3/4 which meets and exceeds all the GL1 requirements and has lots more wear protection. Personally I've been using UTF in my 9N for the last 20+ years with no problems. The left rear brake was contaminated by oil when I got it (overfull or leak??) and still is because I'm too lazy to fix it. The right is still dry as a bone.

TOH

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Jerry/MT

03-27-2008 19:40:43




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to TheOldHokie, 03-27-2008 16:18:35  
Respectfully, I"m just reporting on what the folks at Castrol recommended for the UK Ferguson"s in the absence of GL-1 in their country. Some of the Ferguson guys in the States have tried it and are very pleased with the results. Better winter performance. However, there is no long term information on it"s use. That will most like come from our British users as they cannot get GL-1 in their country as I understand.

Remember GL-1 is not truly a "gear oil" it"s a "transhydraulic oil"; nor is it formulated the same way it was in the "40"s and 50"s when these machines were designed. The MC-134C/D oils are similar. They are not stricly speaking "gear oils".

When I worked on industrial equipment we used SAE 30W motor oil in our hydraulic systems exclusively. We used no AW 32 or AW 46 and our pumps were all gear pumps. I had a Muncie gearbox in "72 Ford pick up that used 10W oil in the tranny not any 80W GL-4 or -5 oil. These old tractor drive lines are pretty lightly loaded( conservative design) and the lube properties requiremnets for the drive components are not all that demanding. There are a lot of these old machines still working and darned few of the have driveline problens.

In this country, GL-1 oil is still available but who knows how long that will be. When the demand gets low enough, the manufactures will deem it "too expensive" to produce or "too unprofitable" and we"ll have to use the UTF"s or other fluids. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. With the British using 15W30 oils, we may get enough data to have other choices when GL-1 goes the way of the dodo.

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TheOldHokie

03-28-2008 02:28:35




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-27-2008 19:40:43  

Jerry/MT said: (quoted from post at 19:40:43 03/27/08) Respectfully, I"m just reporting on what the folks at Castrol recommended for the UK Ferguson"s in the absence of GL-1 in their country. Some of the Ferguson guys in the States have tried it and are very pleased with the results. Better winter performance. However, there is no long term information on it"s use. That will most like come from our British users as they cannot get GL-1 in their country as I understand.

Remember GL-1 is not truly a "gear oil" it"s a "transhydraulic oil"; nor is it formulated the same way it was in the "40"s and 50"s when these machines were designed. The MC-134C/D oils are similar. They are not stricly speaking "gear oils".

When I worked on industrial equipment we used SAE 30W motor oil in our hydraulic systems exclusively. We used no AW 32 or AW 46 and our pumps were all gear pumps. I had a Muncie gearbox in "72 Ford pick up that used 10W oil in the tranny not any 80W GL-4 or -5 oil. These old tractor drive lines are pretty lightly loaded( conservative design) and the lube properties requiremnets for the drive components are not all that demanding. There are a lot of these old machines still working and darned few of the have driveline problens.

In this country, GL-1 oil is still available but who knows how long that will be. When the demand gets low enough, the manufactures will deem it "too expensive" to produce or "too unprofitable" and we"ll have to use the UTF"s or other fluids. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. With the British using 15W30 oils, we may get enough data to have other choices when GL-1 goes the way of the dodo.


Yes to virtually all of that. I too have had (and still do have ) transmissions that speced motor oil. But most transmissions don't use spiral bevel gearing and motor oil has none of the very specific lubrication properties peculiar to that application. GL-1 is only a bit better. I simply don't see the motivation to use a motor oil as a replacement for GL-1 (I'm not even sure when the GL-1 spec came into existence) when GL-2/3/4... or UTF are vastly superior performers and in many cases the recommended replacement.

TOH

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Bruce (VA)

03-27-2008 09:37:09




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Mike35, 03-27-2008 06:33:06  
Check out tips 3 & 4 at the link below. Do not use motor oil.



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TheOldHokie

03-27-2008 07:19:26




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Mike35, 03-27-2008 06:33:06  

Mike35 said: (quoted from post at 06:33:06 03/27/08) I've have a 52 8N with the original shop manual. It doesn't specify what weight hyd. oil to use. Any suggestions?

Thanks Mike


Original spec was SAE 80-SAE 90 gear oil. Modern CNH recommendation is MC134D multipurpose oil.

TOH

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Mike35

03-27-2008 08:41:54




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to TheOldHokie, 03-27-2008 07:19:26  
The lift is a bit slow but works. I believe that dad put in 10W20 or so in it. Dad was a pretty sharp guy so he must have gotten his info somewhere or from a reliable source. Not to question you at all, just making sure that it is gear oil not hyd. oil (if it makes any difference). Thanks again for the reponse



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TheOldHokie

03-27-2008 11:20:33




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Mike35, 03-27-2008 08:41:54  

Mike35 said: (quoted from post at 08:41:54 03/27/08) The lift is a bit slow but works. I believe that dad put in 10W20 or so in it. Dad was a pretty sharp guy so he must have gotten his info somewhere or from a reliable source. Not to question you at all, just making sure that it is gear oil not hyd. oil (if it makes any difference). Thanks again for the reponse


The N's have a common sump shared by the transmission, differential, and hydraulic pump so the fluid is used as both a gear oil and a hydraulic fluid. The original specification was for SAE 90 gear oil for summer use and SAE 80 gear oil for winter use. With all due respect to your Dad:

1) True hydraulic oil is a very poor gear lubricant.

2) Gear oil is a poor but servicable hydraulic fluid.

3) The Ford MC134D is a "universal" style fluid that has good gear lubrication properties and good hydraulic oil performance.

4) SAE 10W20 motor oil is probably a better choice than hydraulic oil but not by much.

TOH

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36 coupe

03-27-2008 12:22:10




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to TheOldHokie, 03-27-2008 11:20:33  
Ford Mc 134 thins out when hot.This oil may be ok in new tractors but it is NG in older tractors...



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TheOldHokie

03-27-2008 13:02:31




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 Ya don't say.... in reply to 36 coupe, 03-27-2008 12:22:10  

36 coupe said: (quoted from post at 12:22:10 03/27/08) Ford Mc 134 thins out when hot.This oil may be ok in new tractors but it is NG in older tractors...


Really? I suppose it would come as no surprise to you that the viscosity specification for UTF @100C is smack dab in the middle of the viscosity specification for SAE 80 gear oil at that same temperature. Check the UTF data sheets and SAE J306 specification for exact numbers.

Next myth please,

TOH

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soundguy

03-27-2008 11:10:32




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 Re: Hyd. oil in reply to Mike35, 03-27-2008 08:41:54  
Yes.. it makes a huge difference.. putting straight hyd oil.. or an engine oil in your trans/rear end/hyds will lead to GEAR WEAR...

Use either a reccomended UTF.. or an 80/90wt gl1-3 gear oil.. or a gl4/5 yellow metal safe gear oil for best ( most ideal ) performance..

soundguy



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