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8N won't start

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ohioblue

04-17-2008 20:06:04




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My 8N (6V system) won't start; have been having trouble periodically, but is now worse and I can't get it going. When I say it won't start, I'm turning on the ignition toggle switch, have it out of gear, push the button (all the steps that usually start it) and dead silence. Nothing tries to turn over. I've replaced the cutout, ignition toggle, push button, but nothing has helped. No obvious shorts or wiring problems, battery is OK. I'm looking for suggestions on what to do next, what the problem might be. Thanks in advance!

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ohioblue

04-20-2008 17:17:51




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
Thanks for all the advice, guys. You obviously know more about the electrical system than I do. So, I'm going to add a little bit of a complication, and hopefully someone can offer advice.
First, the complication. I'm 90% convinced I have a 2N, not an 8N. Seller told me it was an 8N, and "8N" is stamped on the engine to the right of the starter. However, yesterday I saw a comparison of 9N and 8N, and mine has more characteristics of a 9N. Also, just today I saw "2N" is stamped on the rear axle. I found a wiring diagram for both 8N and 9N/2N, and mine matches the 9N (no solenoid on top of starter, etc.)
Update: It still won't start. Since the most popular opinion was that I needed to clean all connections and check or replace battery cables, I did all that. Cleaned all connections, replaced cables with new strap and 2 ga cable. Still nothing. So, following instructions found on the site, I tried to jump start it from my truck. Still nothing. However, even as little as I know about the wiring, it occurs to me that if I have a problem with the rest of the system, it might work if I take off the cable that goes from push button to starter. When I did that, it started cranking. It still didn't start, even after 3 or 4 tries. In fact, after several seconds the cranking started slowing down, which surprised me since the power was coming from a running pickup. Anyway, a couple of follow-up questions:
1. Any thoughts on whether I'm doing something wrong to jump it? It ran fine about a week ago, the last time I used it. After I turned it off, it wouldn't re-start, and still won't.
2. Any thoughts on the problem that would cause the starter to crank when not connected to the rest of the elec. system, and doesn't crank when connected?

Thanks for the help in advance.

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S Russell (TX)

04-19-2008 17:02:35




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
Concur with Bruce and trucker 40 on the battery cables. In the past it was a 2 can of starting fluid to use mine till I replaced the cables with the "real ones'. The amount of corrosion inside the wire covering surprised me and the connection fell of of one cable when I was removing it. Gave a Throaty roar with the new "correct" cables.



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Dunk

04-18-2008 06:55:48




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
He says nothing about having the solenoid off, or replacing it, but.

The small wire on the solenoid that goes to the starter button, needs to face the tractor.

It matters which terminal the hot wire from the battery hooks to.

third party image



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Dunk

04-18-2008 05:33:24




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to Bruce (VA), 04-17-2008 20:06:04  

Bruce (VA) said: (quoted from post at 09:19:49 04/18/08) Next, and the most likely cause of "dead silence" when you press the starter button, is dirty grounds at the solenoid, on the battery posts or between the starter & the block, or worn/corroded cables. And, of all the parts you have replaced, the most likely to fail (and the least expensive), given the symptoms you describe, are the battery cables. Make sure you use the braided strap for the positive cable & a large 1/0 gauge for the negative post going to the starter.


Actually Bruce, there are no grounds at the solenoid.

The solenoid coil, is fed hot from the hot battery terminal that is connected there.

The solenoid is energized when the starter button is pressed grounding the other side of the solenoid coil, and completing the circuit.

I do agree with your cable assesment, especially if there is no click when the newly replaced starter button is pressed.

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Bruce (VA)

04-18-2008 05:37:51




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to Dunk, 04-18-2008 05:33:24  
Yep, you're correct! dirty "connections" is the correct word, not "grounds".



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Bruce (VA)

04-18-2008 05:19:49




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
Well, you can keep replacing parts one by one & pretty soon it will either start or you will have a new tractor! :)

The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. Jumping ahead to 'my buddy said it could be whatever' usually just wastes your time and your money. Otherwise, you are going to end up chasing your tail around that tractor & spending a boatload of money to fix what could easily be a loose wire or dirty grounds. I offer this advice from personal experience because I am not a mechanic. I do not have the ability learned after 30 years of working on an N tractor to simply diagnose the problem & go right to the fix.

Assuming you have a good starter (and chances are very good that you do) the current has to flow from the battery to the starter & back to the battery. (so to speak). So, at some point, the current stops. Your job is to find where it stops.

Lets start w/ the battery. Is it fully charged? A battery is checked w/ a load tester (big $$$$)or a hydrometer ($3) Get a hydrometer.

Next, and the most likely cause of "dead silence" when you press the starter button, is dirty grounds at the solenoid, on the battery posts or between the starter & the block, or worn/corroded cables. And, of all the parts you have replaced, the most likely to fail (and the least expensive), given the symptoms you describe, are the battery cables. Make sure you use the braided strap for the positive cable & a large 1/0 gauge for the negative post going to the starter.

If you have a fully charged battery, good cables & grounds & it still does not start, check out tip # 43, at the link below, for a tip on safely jumping it w/ a 12v battery.

Post back & let us know what worked.

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trucker 40

04-17-2008 20:25:34




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
It could be you need to clean the battery cables,or the battery cables might not be any good.You need those big original style cables for 6 volt and they need to be clean.A battery cable can corrode inside the insulation and quit working. Next if thats not it you need a test light,see if you get fire to the starter.Also look at the starter and see if its got a lot of oil on it where it bolts to the bellhousing.If its soaked in oil that could cause it not to ground the case and the starter wont work.It could be the solenoid.

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West Coast Bob

04-17-2008 20:13:54




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 Re: 8N won't start in reply to ohioblue, 04-17-2008 20:06:04  
Did you give the battery a load test or just put a Meter across the terminals ?

Did you jump the solenoid ? If so what was the outcome ?

Have you removed anything lately and not put it back together ?

Whats the amp meter doing when you hit the start button ?



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