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Get my 6v facts str8

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nondem

04-18-2008 09:34:55




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I think I got a handle on things with wiring harness connections on a 6v front mount. I swapped the harness over carefully but it looks like the original setup had the coil wire on the wrong side of the resistor so I wanna make sure I get it as intended. This is on an early 1950 8n w/front mount distributor - remote "round-coil" conversion.

Please correct me if I've missed something - I'd hate to let the smoke out of something. I have a working set of assumptions:

The starting system is always energized - if you hit the foot-button while in neutral it's gonna turn over.
The keyswitch simply keeps power from making it to the coil/points unless it's on.

There is a resistor needed between the 6v power source and the "6v" coil to reduce the 6v to 3v.
That means that the power supplied to the points also needs to be reduced to 3v by the resistor.
On the OEM resistor/terminal block there are three posts...The top two are each end of the resistor built into the block. The bottom one is just common junction-point, there are no "behind-the-scenes" connections with it.

Since my tractor had a "round-coil" conversion done, and has a resistor mounted near it - the OEM one mounted to the dash is likely not needed.

That would explain why the coil wire was attached to the "wrong" side of the OEM resistor.

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JMOR

04-24-2008 07:56:15




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to Ron-MO, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  

Dunk said: (quoted from post at 16:25:14 04/18/08) Hmmm, The more that I learn about this the confused err I git...

Part: MPE IC14SB
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I suspect some catalog art work person just made a mistake here, because in the NAPA parts book that the counter man has, it specifies the IC14 as having 3.25 ohms primary resistance & makes no mention of resistor requirement. That w/o resistor would yield:

12v/3.25=3.7Amps, 13v/3.25=4A, 14.4v/3.25=4.43A

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Dunk

04-19-2008 08:04:36




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to GB in MT., 04-18-2008 09:34:55  

JMOR said: (quoted from post at 17:52:42 04/18/08) Apply this to remove point of confusion.

:)


I do like your style, JMOR.... LOL!!!!



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Dunk

04-18-2008 13:25:14




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  
Hmmm, The more that I learn about this the confused err I git...

Part: MPE IC14SB
third party image

Link



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JMOR

04-18-2008 13:52:42




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to Dunk, 04-18-2008 13:25:14  
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Apply this to remove point of confusion.
:)



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JMOR

04-18-2008 13:15:53




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  
I'd like to muddy the water here, just a little.
By now, most everybody recognizes that the square can coils are found with differing resistances in the primary winding, thus requiring differing ballast resistors.
Yet most discussions read as though all 6v round can coils are alike AND that all 12v round can coils are alike, recognizing only that 6v coils differ from 12v coils.
Fact is that if you were to go thru a junk yard of 12v vehicles, you will find many different primary resistances among the 12v coils. Just because it is a 12v round can doesn't mean it does not differ from any other 12v round can coil.
Now, some like to be a bit more specific and specify the IC-14SB coil as 12v, requiring no resistor...all is well with that, because then we have nailed down THE coil to something more than just round can 12v.

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nondem

04-18-2008 11:57:59




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to soundguy, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  
Thanks! That clears it up....I was missing the part about the 3v only being for the square can coil. SO that means it's ok to remove all resistors from the coil circuit and feed 6v into the coil and also into the points.

When I get another square can coil - I'll need to arrange for a resistor to be in series. Also, what else would need to be changed back in the distributer to to make a OEM square coil fit/work on it?

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SteveB(OH)

04-18-2008 12:31:56




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 11:57:59  
Nondem,

You DON'T want another square can coil. The Square can coils are inferior to the round can coil that you are using. That's why folks like me picked, pried and cussed while hollowing out our old square can coils.

There is not much chance that anything will ever go wrong with your round can coil.

But for arguments sake, if you did get a functioning square can coil the ONLY resistor that you would hook up is the original ballast resistor on the back side of the dash. Throw the 12v to 6v resistor in the trash...

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nondem

04-18-2008 11:22:26




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to DON TX, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  

Jerry/MT said: (quoted from post at 13:48:24 04/18/08) Is this a 12v system or a 6V system? I didn"t see you mention anything about a 12V system so I"m assuming you have a 6V system. I don"t believe you need a resistor on a 6V round can coil powered by a 6V electrical system. You only need a resistor when you use a 6V round can coil with a 12V electrical system.


This is a 6 volt system. The Genny is 6v so I would assume that means everything else is also. It has the original coil housing modified so the Hi-tension wire from the remote round coil can plug into it.
With this fact in mind - why would there even be a resistor - let alone TWO on this tractor? I'm assuming the dash mounted(OEM) resistor is not being used but that still means the one near the coil was being used(it was wired in series w/the coil input).

Someone posted on another thread that the 6v gets reduced to 3v by the resistor....

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Dell (WA)

04-18-2008 11:47:52




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 11:22:26  
nondem..... ..I thought you learned grasshopper. The 6-volt squarecan ignition coil is really a 3-volt coil and therefore it needs the "infamous ballast resistor" to reduce the 6-volt battery to 3-volt coil requirements.

A real 6-volt roundcan ignition coil on a real 6-volt battery system needs NO RESISTOR.

There are some electrically challenged shadetree mechanics that go out and buy a 6-volt coil that has a tag attached that reads "requires resistor". They can't seem to read or understand (just like you) that is the bean-counters way to make one-coil (6-volt) fit 2-genny systems, (6-volt and 12-volt with 12-to-6v converting resistor) thus saving the coil company 1/2 the inventory cost. They don't care about you, they assume you understand electrical stuff.

BOTTOM line, NO RESISTOR for 6-volt roundcan ignition coil in 6-volt battery system. 'specially in yer farmerized hogged-out squarecan conversion. Understand??? Take your UNNECESSARY resistor OUT and gitt the HOT sparkies and eazier starting yer 6-volt coil was designed to provide..... .respectfully, Dell yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Jerry/MT

04-18-2008 10:48:24




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 Re: Get my 6v facts str8 in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  
Is this a 12v system or a 6V system? I didn"t see you mention anything about a 12V system so I"m assuming you have a 6V system. I don"t believe you need a resistor on a 6V round can coil powered by a 6V electrical system. You only need a resistor when you use a 6V round can coil with a 12V electrical system.



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Dell (WA)

04-18-2008 10:04:02




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 ahh-so grasshopper, you are learning in reply to nondem, 04-18-2008 09:34:55  
nondem..... ...yep, the 6v-roundcan conversion needs a 12-to-6v conversion resistor. Just as you have identified. Its NOT as efficient as a real 12-volt roundcan coil that uses NO RESISTOR. (NAPA IC14-SB recommended) And yes, that 1-sided connection to the "infamous ballast resistor" is just a convenient "tie-point" to provide ignition switched ON/OFF for the roundcan coil. It is the "HOT-side" of the ballast resistor ...ie... non-resistored side and therefore provides 12-volts to the 12-to-6v resistor for the 6v roundcan coil..... ..Dell, one of 8-ways I know to convert to 12-volts

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SteveB(OH)

04-18-2008 10:48:22




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 Re: ahh-so grasshopper, you are learning in reply to Dell (WA), 04-18-2008 10:04:02  
Dell, I'm reading nondem's post a little differently. My take is that he is keeping a 6 volt system, but has a hollowed out square can coil combined with a 6v round can coil (as I do...)

Nondem, if I read your post correctly (a big if..) then you do not need a 12v to 6v resistor. Additionally, when you refer to "the OEM resistor/terminal block" I'm assuming that you are talking about the "infamous ballast resistor" This is not needed when using the round can coil conversion and connecting the wire to the "wrong side" of the resistor is just an easy way of eliminating it from the circuit (exactly as I did).

Hope I cleared things up instead of clouding them up :) :)

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