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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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electrical screw up! long

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Rusty8N

04-22-2008 13:13:40




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Hey folks, any advice greatly appreciated.
Relevant info: 1950 front mount 8N, 12V conversion.
Got it running well with your help several years ago, after rebuild of block (thanks). Tractor is on weekend property 2 hrs away, so I don"t see it all that often, and I probably forgot more than I knew. The precipitating incident was that a metal hook on battery hold down strap shorted out the positive battery pole to frame, when I hit a bump. It ran after that, but when I turned on the lights it became clear something was amiss...lights would dim, except every 7 seconds (at mowing speed in first or second) they would brighten up...charging was clearly not keeping battery charged, as the dim periods grew dimmer and dimmer...long story short...would not start next time, battery would not take a charge and I took it in for warranty (it tested bad)...got cash, since they did not have right size...so I go back several months later, get a new battery...put it in and hooked it up backwards (like I said...a screwup...I now learned that there are different sizes on the pos and neg terminals for a reason)...anyway, big wire to solenoid and big wire to alternator melted...so I"m in a mess: here are issues.

1) did I fry diodes in alternator or do other damage?

2) in the process of replacing melted wires the strap that links the ammeter posts came lose (the alternator side post detached from the alternator...so what role does the ammeter provide besides reading amps (which it never has)?

3) I"m getting no spark, and I traced it back to no juice at the terminal where the wire to the coil takes off...

4) it could be further screwed up by the fact that I replaced the busted ammeter with a volt meter...so maybe that is the reason for #4??

I"m thanking you in advance and hope you get some chuckles at my stupidity that offsets your trouble if you have any answers.

Rusty

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Bob

04-22-2008 13:55:25




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 Re: electrical screw up! long in reply to Rusty8N, 04-22-2008 13:13:40  
1) did I fry diodes in alternator or do other damage?

...Take the alternator in and have it tested, as it's likely damaged after that much smoke was let out of the witing. OR, with the battery connected up PROPERLY, touch the large alternator output wire terminal to the output stud. BIG spark = shorted diodes. NO spark = MAYBE the alternator will charge when you fire up the engine.


2) in the process of replacing melted wires the strap that links the ammeter posts came lose (the alternator side post detached from the alternator...so what role does the ammeter provide besides reading amps (which it never has)?

...There is a shunt between the two posts on the ammeter that allows current to flow between them, connecting the power from the battery onward to the terminal block.

If the ammeter is still "in circuit", whether or not the ammeter still "reads" or is stuck, it needs to be there to complete the circuit from the battery-powered terminal on the starter solenoid to the junction block.

3) I"m getting no spark, and I traced it back to no juice at the terminal where the wire to the coil takes off...

...See answer to #4.

4) it could be further screwed up by the fact that I replaced the busted ammeter with a volt meter...so maybe that is the reason for #4??

IF you directly replaced the ammeter with a voltmeter, (connected it to the existing wiring) you will have negligible current to the terminal block, and on to the ignition switch, as the coil in the VOLTMETER has a very high resistance, compared to the AMMETER, (with a lo resistance SHUNT across it's terminals) that's suppose to be there.

The VOLTMETER would need to be connected between the SWITCHED side of the ignition switch and GROUND.

This puts a little voltage drop into the voltmeter reading, compared to the voltage at the battery, but the power to the VOLTMETER has to be SWITCHED, or it will be a (small) constant drain on the battery any time the tractor is sitting unused.

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Rusty8N

04-22-2008 18:18:53




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 Re: electrical screw up! long in reply to Bob, 04-22-2008 13:55:25  
Hey Bob, thanks so much for the crisp responses...I had pretty much figured out the voltmeter-ammeter difference was as you say, so I have a new ammeter coming...then, I'll try your test of the alternator...there is a junkyard not to far away, or at worst, they have the replacement at Advance auto...hope to be back in business in a couple of afternoons...thanks again and best wishes, Rusty



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Dell (WA)

04-22-2008 13:46:11




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 Re: electrical screw up! long in reply to Rusty8N, 04-22-2008 13:13:40  
Rusty..... .1) reverse battery polarity on 12v alternator lets the smoke out. You doubt? Take yer alternator in to an autoparts store for "free" test. You do know all electrical stuff really runs on smoke, don't you? Let the smoke out and it quits working everytime.

2) correctly installed, all charge volts (amps) must go THRU ammeter; that is why it has (+) and (-) indications; to tell you which way the charges are going. Its up to you to understand a (+) charge means volts going INTO yer battery.

4) correctly installed the 2-terminal ammeter has ALL the amps going THRU it. A direct substitution of a 2-terminal voltmeter BLOCKS amps (which is what does the work) yet will read the volts. (in truth, a voltmeter is a micro-micro-micro ammeter, a technical thing) It takes about 3-4 amps to run yer sparkie coil. An incorrectly installed voltmeter will STOP yer sparkies from sparkling.

You doubt? Connect a voltmeter directly across the battery posts and it will read battery volts just fine. Connect an ammeter directly across the battery posts and it will try to pass all the battery amps from oneside-to-other with a BIG ARC-FLASH of a SHORT and burn out. 30-amp meters are NOT built to handle the 500-amps of a BATTERY being shorted out.

Yes, #3 is probably the result of #4 and also result of #2.

While wiring and re-wiring a tractor is NOT rocket science, it is electrical science. Your post (as heart breaking and discouraging as it is) tells me that you'd be $$$ ahead PAYING someone to correctly wire yer 12-volt conversion..... ..respectfully, Dell, a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons

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Rusty8N

04-22-2008 18:13:14




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 Re: electrical screw up! long in reply to Dell (WA), 04-22-2008 13:46:11  
Hey Dell, glad to read you are still directing those sparkies...thanks for the info, which is nice and clear, and for taking it easy on me...I do this for fun...and "cause they look better than any vehicle ever made...if I as worried about the money I"d take your advice, or buy a little Kubota...I have a new ammeter coming, and I"ll pick up a new alternator if need be...maybe by the time I get it running again, I will have relearned what all I forgot! bests!

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