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Barn Treasure is ALIVE

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nondem

04-30-2008 18:48:52




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This is a post I've been looking forward to making.

The previously seized early-1950 8n is RUNNING. It wouldn't have happened without you-guys. Thank you!
Reminder Link: Link

After fumbling through the last hanging threads today I got it running. At first, it wouldn't start even with a 12volt jump(direct to starter of course). So I had a friend tow me and popped the clutch....Eureka!!!

Once it got all the oil residue cooked off and ran for a few minutes it was able to start on it's own(6v). I can't believe my luck - The cooling system doesn't leak a drop, the thing drives in all gears fine. The PTO and lift appear to work. I terrorized the neighborhood for a good 15 minutes. Here is a clip I took right after it started:

Link

The manifold needs replacing - it leaks and It was still cooking off all the ATF etc etc... that was in the exhaust so there is some smoke but it's all but gone now after about 30 minutes total running.

No knocking or anything....

So this brings with it a new batch of questions:

1) The lift goes up fine but will only go back down all the way if I stand on the arms. I'm thinking the weight of an implement would take care of that but I'm not sure. The fluid is still clear after a 30 minute run - at least 10 of which was with the PTO engaged. I'm thinking that means there wasn't any nastiness sitting at the bottom of the case to get stirred back into suspension or it would have shown itself. I could be wrong ???

2) No charging. Everything is wired fine but i've not touched the genny/Regulator beyond installing the new harness and cleaning all the terminals. Could it be as simple as polarizing the genny? Which of these wires do I short?
third party image

3) It looks like it runs lean if you don't have the air-cleaner on it. It only reliably started on it's own(w/o ether) after I reinstalled the cleaner/oil bowl. Does this go along with you guys collective knowledge?

4) I read somewhere that there were issues with manifolds that didn't bolt up properly. How do I make sure I get the right one?


I'm sure I'll think of more...

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nondem

05-02-2008 05:24:24




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to Walter Grech, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
I can verify two things from here in my office at work:

1) The red-wire in the pic DOES go to the ARM terminal on the Genny.

2) The yellow wire that loops throught he ammeter coil IS the one to the battery(-).



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GB in MT.

05-02-2008 05:37:39




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 05-02-2008 05:24:24  


nondem;

I just went through your pix, and listened to your "N" RUNNING. I just wanted to let you know, for what it is worth, I am pretty impressed.

( Froze up 8N to Running 8N in short time), That is good work in my book.

Have an "N" day.

Gary 8) :)



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nondem

05-02-2008 04:58:18




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to Dan, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
I don't have an resistor in the coil circuit because it's got a 6v round coil conversion w/a gutted square coil. I was under the impression that a resistor was only needed if the original square 3v coil was in use?

The ballast resistor below the ammeter isn't being used besides using one of the terminals as a junction point.
I tried to follow the "original" wiring while also using the diagram as a guide. The VR connections were the toughest but I double-checked where each original wire went and followed that. I "was" pretty confident that I had the wiring correct but was frustrating that all the diagrams show a VR w/o showing what each terminal was - just showing a box with 4 wires going in it isn't very helpful.

I assumed the VR was the original since it looks the part but assumptions can be wrong :)

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JMOR

05-01-2008 21:18:25




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to Dunk, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  

Dell (WA) said: (quoted from post at 21:21:05 05/01/08) Nondem..... ....iff'n I understand yer picture of yer squarecan voltage regulator, sumptin ain't right. The standard 4-terminal squarecan V/R armature and battery are SIDE-BY-SIDE. Usual color code is RED'n'YELLOW. But electrons are colorblind.
Yer YELLOW is the BATTERY and goes THRU yer loop ammeter to the bottom of yer 3-terminal "ballast resistor" strip. This is how yer battery gitts charged.
Usually RED is the genny armature OUTPUT 'cuz it is heavier than the itty-bitty field connection on side of genny barrel. Yer showing what I believe to be the ARM connection WHITE. As I said, electrons are colorblind, I just want to verify yer genny-to-V/R wiring as I've described 'cuz yer complainin' bout NOT CHARGING.
You can ALWAYS re-polarize ennytime you want by "arc-sparkin" the side-by-side ARM'n'BATT terminals. Engine OFF. Simple, eh?
The BLACK wire is yer GROUND between the genny barrel and voltage regulator.
And iff'n ol'cuzzin weakeyes is seeing correctly, yer "infamous ballast resistor" is NOT in the ignition circuit to yer 4-nipple frontmount squarecan ignition coil top terminal. Yer squarecan coil needs MANDATORY ballast resistor ...OR... you will be buying a NEW squarecan $$$ ignition coil.
Yeah, no ballast resistor means HOTTER sparkies for quicker eazier starting for long time setting rustbucket but don't fergitt to re-wire it correctly ....or else.... respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister


" I just want to verify yer genny-to-V/R wiring..."

I'm with you on verification. If some PO had changed to NAA type gen/reg then his wiring looks OK. I don't know what he's got. The reg isn't in the right location and it sure isn't a 8N-10505-B regulator. I think there are some unknowns here & "verification" was a really good choice of words. Hopefully he can make out markings on reg terminals...might be my imagination, but looks like I can see some lettering.

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Dell (WA)

05-01-2008 18:21:05




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Nondem..... ....iff'n I understand yer picture of yer squarecan voltage regulator, sumptin ain't right. The standard 4-terminal squarecan V/R armature and battery are SIDE-BY-SIDE. Usual color code is RED'n'YELLOW. But electrons are colorblind.

Yer YELLOW is the BATTERY and goes THRU yer loop ammeter to the bottom of yer 3-terminal "ballast resistor" strip. This is how yer battery gitts charged.

Usually RED is the genny armature OUTPUT 'cuz it is heavier than the itty-bitty field connection on side of genny barrel. Yer showing what I believe to be the ARM connection WHITE. As I said, electrons are colorblind, I just want to verify yer genny-to-V/R wiring as I've described 'cuz yer complainin' bout NOT CHARGING.

You can ALWAYS re-polarize ennytime you want by "arc-sparkin" the side-by-side ARM'n'BATT terminals. Engine OFF. Simple, eh?

The BLACK wire is yer GROUND between the genny barrel and voltage regulator.

And iff'n ol'cuzzin weakeyes is seeing correctly, yer "infamous ballast resistor" is NOT in the ignition circuit to yer 4-nipple frontmount squarecan ignition coil top terminal. Yer squarecan coil needs MANDATORY ballast resistor ...OR... you will be buying a NEW squarecan $$$ ignition coil.

Yeah, no ballast resistor means HOTTER sparkies for quicker eazier starting for long time setting rustbucket but don't fergitt to re-wire it correctly ....or else.... respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Ramon

05-01-2008 12:55:04




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Pretty good beast you have, but you will need to get those radius rods straightened out. Both side have a wicked bend in them.



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LeeMo

05-01-2008 10:49:27




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
That's Great!! Congratulations on getting it running. It sounds like you have a winner!!



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nondem

05-01-2008 08:01:25




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to Colin King, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
One more clarification then I'll shut my pie-hole :)

This should be done with the tractor NOT running but the key on?



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LeeMo

05-01-2008 12:25:42




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 05-01-2008 08:01:25  
correct.



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Colin King

05-01-2008 07:43:45




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Good work! It sure sounds good.

Colin, MN



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nondem

05-01-2008 05:20:20




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to old, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Link

WHich one of these is the ARM? The terminals on the case say "G" and "F" - does that mean the one on the end-cap is the ARM?

Please excuse me being so particular on this - I just wanna be sure...



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souNdguy

05-01-2008 05:52:40




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 05-01-2008 05:20:20  
Gen/arm are the same thing.

On the generator, the LARGE stud sticking out the back of it is the armature. The small studs on the barrell of the case will be field, and sometimes ground, if it does have 2. The field stud will have an insulating gromet at it's base.. the other stud, if present will be pressed right into the barrell.

soundguy



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souNdguy

05-01-2008 05:03:17




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Jumper battery to armature on that a-circuit system. I wouldn't even fumble trying to get my head and hands down back of the dash.. just take a couple feet of wire and touch from armature stud on genny to the battery hot terminal.. which, should be negative, since this is a positive ground system.

soundguy



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nondem

05-01-2008 04:58:21




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to Mark Pearce, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
It's an original inductive pickup ammeter I believe. Gets it's reading off the loop around the yellow wire.

Appears to work...but I'm not trusting it yet.

To check for charging - I monitored the battery voltage while it was running at various speeds. It's not charging.



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Gary,kansas

04-30-2008 20:44:12




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
If it's not charging, I'm assuming you are determining that with something beside your amp gauge, because unless I'm not looking at your picture wrong your amp gauge is not hooked up. Is it me?



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Ultradog MN

04-30-2008 20:09:54




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 And to think... in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
I was here when you first posted about it.
Nice find. And it runs too? Congrats!
Can't help you with your electrical but I can advise you to change all the fluids in the whole tractor soon.
Pull the pto shaft out and clean all the sludge out of the bottom. Then refill. If you have three point work for it to do put it through it's paces and see if an impliment doesn't make the lift arms drop like they should - better to have them not drop than not raise.
Change the antifreeze too. I assume you've already changed the engine oil?
Don't forget the steering gears. Laying there for all those years they are probably pretty dry.
You might get some leaks here and there from seals drying out. But if you see it as oil is cheaper than teardowns you might get a lot of useful work out of it before digging in to it deep.

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HCooke

04-30-2008 19:28:14




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Lift not going back down could be dirt in the exhast valve. Heavier weight might dislodge it or you might have to clean out the pump. Polorizing gen is in order. Read the manual - slightly different proceedure depending on which gen you have. More knowledgeable people may add tp this.



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Bob Harvey

04-30-2008 18:53:23




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 Re: Barn Treasure is ALIVE in reply to nondem, 04-30-2008 18:48:52  
Good for you ! You are one of the lucky ones. ENJOY. The 'lads' here will rejoice and help with all your questions. HPH



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