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Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again)

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nondem

05-09-2008 06:29:35




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I took back the 6v battery I bought but couldn't find the right size in 12v at TSC.

I measured the battery compartment on my 8n and it looks like the battery needs to be 7.25" wide x 9" long x 7" high when looking at it from the left side of the tractor - to fit.
Isn't there a size code for this or do I need to take a tape measure into the battery store and size them up?

From my description alone - the auto-electric dood was able to tell me that the regulator I have is an older automotive regulator to match the 12v genny I've got.

third party image

Is there some guidance someone could give on how I can assure myself that I have it wired correctly? When I installed the new wiring harness - I was under the impression that I had a 6v positive ground system and it looks like I have a 12v negative ground. I used the 8n wiring diagram and the existing crumbling wiring harness as a guide when I installed it. At this point - since I'm going to negative ground and installing a 12v battery I'm concerned about getting it right.

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nondem

05-10-2008 18:19:48




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to Dunk, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  

36 coupe said: (quoted from post at 07:50:11 05/10/08) Why is the ignition resistor disconnected?


Good eye !
It's because there is a resistor "downstream" near the coil.



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36 coupe

05-10-2008 04:50:11




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to nondem, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
Why is the ignition resistor disconnected?



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JMOR

05-09-2008 14:04:00




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to Dan, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  

souNdguy said: (quoted from post at 15:34:14 05/09/08) While we don't know for sure.. I tend to agree with JMOR.. it is likely your genny is now b circuit if it is using a later 12v regulator..

soundguy


"While we don't know for sure.. "

And I agree with SouNdguy..... ..

If you really want to know, remove belt from gen, remove arm & fld wires from gen.

Temporarily jumper from your battery to ARM. With another jumper, connect Field to ground and observe gen pulley.

Next, connect Field to your battery and observe pulley.

If it motors with Field grounded, then it is type-A.

If it motors with Field tied to battery, then it is type-B.

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souNdguy

05-09-2008 12:34:14




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to nondem, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
While we don't know for sure.. I tend to agree with JMOR.. it is likely your genny is now b circuit if it is using a later 12v regulator..

soundguy



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nondem

05-09-2008 10:51:29




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to tesmith66, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
Ah - maybe there is hope - the genny wasn't putting out anything. One of the brush-springs had been busted by a dirt-dobber nest and the brush wasn't even touching the ARM.

I guess I'll find out tonight :)



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JMOR

05-09-2008 10:25:06




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to Dunk, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
Maybe on both questions.

Ammeter: Put the wire through it in which ever direction make meter show a discharge with a load & a charge when running/charging.

Hurt reg: When gen is outputting one polarity & battery is the other, the reg contacts don't like it. They may survive, though. That is why you 'polarize' before starting engine.



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nondem

05-09-2008 09:57:41




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to Jack L, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
After reading your reply and the next reply - then talking to the Genny guy(on old friend in the biz) - everyones advice agrees. That never happens!!!
I do have two questions: - since I'm going negative ground - don't I need to swap the direction of the yellow wire going through the ammeter loop?

I had a NEW 6v battery connected positive ground and running the tractor with the VR wired as shown. Did I kill it?

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nondem

05-09-2008 09:41:39




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to TheOldHokie, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
You are my hero!

-Randy



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JMOR

05-09-2008 08:12:29




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to don b, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  

nondem said: (quoted from post at 09:29:35 05/09/08) I took back the 6v battery I bought but couldn't find the right size in 12v at TSC.

I measured the battery compartment on my 8n and it looks like the battery needs to be 7.25" wide x 9" long x 7" high when looking at it from the left side of the tractor - to fit.
Isn't there a size code for this or do I need to take a tape measure into the battery store and size them up?

From my description alone - the auto-electric dood was able to tell me that the regulator I have is an older automotive regulator to match the 12v genny I've got.

third party image

Is there some guidance someone could give on how I can assure myself that I have it wired correctly? When I installed the new wiring harness - I was under the impression that I had a 6v positive ground system and it looks like I have a 12v negative ground. I used the 8n wiring diagram and the existing crumbling wiring harness as a guide when I installed it. At this point - since I'm going to negative ground and installing a 12v battery I'm concerned about getting it right.
third party image

You appear to have it wired as in BLACK. That is what I would expect for the later B-type (later Fords than 40s-50s N-tractors) generators such as your 12volt system. The white lettering would be more typical of the 6v, A-type generators from these vintage Ford tractor regulators.
Looks like you are OK, to me.

Reg/gen wiring does not change as to whether you are POS gnd or NEG gnd.

However, you should be aware that some testing techniques, such as "full fielding" by shorting the FLD to ground to obtain full gen output (as you will find in the archives) will BURN the contacts in this type B system.. Not that the archives are wrong, they just assume that the system in question is 'as from the factory A-type".

You are different.

Polarizing is also done differently. See attached. Type A =externally gnded field /internally sourced. Type-B=internally gnded field/externally sourced.

third party image

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Tom from Buckeye Lake

05-09-2008 08:45:35




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to JMOR, 05-09-2008 08:12:29  
Wow, I"m impressed, good reply!!!!! !!



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Dell (WA)

05-09-2008 08:11:14




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 Re: Electrical/Battery questions(It's payday again) in reply to nondem, 05-09-2008 06:29:35  
nondem..... ..proper battery size fer 12v conversion is either #22 or #35. Interestingly enuff, the OEM 6v battery is listed as 13-plates, not even by voltage or now standardized battery size spec-1A.

And since you have a 12v genny, you can install yer battery either positive or negative ground. Electrons don't care but yer square can voltage regulator does, so whether you negative or positive ground, REPOLARIZE!!! anyways. Ask yer genny guy how to do it with yer "weird" set-up 'cuz it could be one of several different ways. I suspect it ain't the same as OEM 8N squarecan V/R, so I ain't gonnna tell you how.

As fer yer wiring, COLOR is yer friend. Follow yer colored wires. Since YELLOW goes thru yer loop ammeter, it is yer BATTERY charge wire and BATT terminal on yer squarecan V/R. Since BLACK is connected to yer squarecan V/R baseplate as GROUND. Now all ya haffta to do is follow the white and red wires to yer 12v genny. Generally the HEAVY RED wire is yer genny ARMATURE output. And that leaves the WHITE as yer FIELD.

You should also look CLOSELY at yer squarecan terminals 'cuz surprizingly enuff, they are usually LABELED too. Isn't that amazing???

Always use proper terminal lugs and stranded wire ..... ..respectfully, Dell

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