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Points closed up again...

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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 14:25:29




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Any idea's? Still need to check and see if I can open the gap. Its 95° here. Got in 3 hours brush hogging....All of a sudden it sounded like it was running on 2 cylinders. Then it died...Checked and no spark. Got the wife to come get me and got a few tools, my truck and Fred's distributor.. I was a mile from the house...Put Fred's distributor in and the old 9N fired right up. Drove the tractor home after a few more passes with the brush hog...Made it home no problem. Went back and got my truck...Now its time for some cold ones :lol: 8)
9N is back home 8) I hual my ice chest on the brush hog 8)
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Sean (TX)

05-10-2008 03:35:15




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Mark Pearce, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

Jerry/MT said: (quoted from post at 22:57:24 05/09/08) Some of the old distributor manuals I have seen made reference to proper spring tension on the points. ( They even had a gauge to measure the tension.)Too much tension and the rubbing block wears prematurely and to little and the points bounce. Now these distributors that I"m referring to were on cars that had higher reving engines, but I"m wondering if somehow you are installing your points with too much spring tension and getting premature wear on the rubbing block? Whatever it is, it seems to occur consistently to you and your tractor.


Sure does...I need to solve this!!

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Sean (TX)

05-10-2008 03:34:02




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Colin King, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

Pete Cowart said: (quoted from post at 23:16:41 05/09/08) Just thinking out loud but, he says this has happened lots of times. Can the distributor shaft/bushings be worn causing the points to wear out prematurely? It wouldn't seem possible to get so many sets of bad points and now he can hardly adjust them.

typing again when I should probably be reading,

Pete


Bushings are brand new.

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Sean (TX)

05-10-2008 03:33:21




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Phil9N3667, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

Gary,kansas said: (quoted from post at 00:35:32 05/10/08) Am I mistaking, or were you cutting a golf course? If you were, are you sure Fred's not considering retirement? The old timers used grease on those points, throw away the cheap crap, when I was young, these tractors run daily with out the problems I have seen on this site, the cheap foreign made stuff should be outlawed!! I am venting, sorry.


Ill try some good grease.

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Sean (TX)

05-10-2008 03:32:16




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Colin King, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

JMOR said: (quoted from post at 22:51:19 05/09/08)
Been here before. Don't know why? Quality control probably, but doesn't matter now. File out the mounting/adjust holes in the points until you can get enough movement to set proper 0.015 gap. Worked for me.

You seem enterprising enough that you have probably been filing while I've been typing! :wink:


Didnt think of that. Ill try it later.(chain saw file should work :lol: ) I am heading out at first light to get the shreading done...New points in Fred's distributor.

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Gary,kansas

05-09-2008 22:35:32




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Am I mistaking, or were you cutting a golf course? If you were, are you sure Fred's not considering retirement? The old timers used grease on those points, throw away the cheap crap, when I was young, these tractors run daily with out the problems I have seen on this site, the cheap foreign made stuff should be outlawed!! I am venting, sorry.



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Jerry/MT

05-09-2008 20:57:24




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Some of the old distributor manuals I have seen made reference to proper spring tension on the points. ( They even had a gauge to measure the tension.)Too much tension and the rubbing block wears prematurely and to little and the points bounce. Now these distributors that I"m referring to were on cars that had higher reving engines, but I"m wondering if somehow you are installing your points with too much spring tension and getting premature wear on the rubbing block? Whatever it is, it seems to occur consistently to you and your tractor.

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36 coupe

05-10-2008 04:32:16




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Jerry/MT, 05-09-2008 20:57:24  
The Ford v8 and 6 cylinder cars used the same set of points as the 9n.I never saw all the ignition problems that tractor owners seem to be having now.Ive owned 8 pre 49 Fords with no points problems with the exception of a broken point spring in a 48.I worked for a farmer who owned a 8n that was used to plow a long drive every winter and raked many acres of hay every summe.This tractor never had any ignition problems during the 3 years I took care of it.Ford could not have sold 500,000 tractors if they had all the problems I see on this forum.He had Farmalls and a Case dozer and many trucks.A 36 Ford truck and A 48 Ford dump truck got plenty of use and never had ignition problems.The rubbing blocks on ignition points were always made of phenolic not plastic.Ignition points get very hot in use,plastics cant stand the heat.Another problem I see on this forum is this.Tractor owners are replacing entire ignition systems to fix problems.They are junking good original parts and replacing them with worthless import parts.My Ford 640 tractor runs fine on points ,condenser and spark plugs I put in 15 years ago when I bought it.The original points had a lot of metal transfer because the condenser capacity was way off.If you have points and condenser that are working well leave them alone.Check the gap once or twice a year.My tractors are working tractors not toys.Tune ups have been good money makers for garages for many years.No one can predict when a part will fail.Changing out the the entire ignition system when a condenser fails is foolish.Working on a tractor ignition with out a basic knowledge of how the system works is foolish.After you have spent several thousand on an old tractor a few bucks on an owners manual and repair manuals make sense.

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Pete Cowart

05-09-2008 21:16:41




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Jerry/MT, 05-09-2008 20:57:24  
Just thinking out loud but, he says this has happened lots of times. Can the distributor shaft/bushings be worn causing the points to wear out prematurely? It wouldn't seem possible to get so many sets of bad points and now he can hardly adjust them.

typing again when I should probably be reading,

Pete



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JMOR

05-09-2008 20:51:19




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Dell (WA), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Been here before. Don't know why? Quality control probably, but doesn't matter now. File out the mounting/adjust holes in the points until you can get enough movement to set proper 0.015 gap. Worked for me.

You seem enterprising enough that you have probably been filing while I've been typing! :wink:



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 16:59:59




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Dunk, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
They are the phenolic rubbing block material points. I used the pill of grease that was included.. I have forgot to use that in the past. The cheap points you get at TSC Do not come with the pill of grease..I will never buy a set there again...If it is not in the box you will forget about it...So I thought this was the early end of a set of points or 2...Looks like it is not the reason...Stuck in the field a mile from home sucks....I love cell phones 8) Still had plenty of water but I was ready for beer after that :lol:
FYI...I cant open the gap far enough to set them...What to do?


Dean said: (quoted from post at 18:51:57 05/09/08) Sean:

The points could have slipped if the mounting screws were not sufficiently tight and/or if improper mounting screws were used.

More likely, the rubbing block has worn down causing the gap to decrease.

Do the points have the (good) phenolic rubbing block material or the less desireable black plastic rubbing block?

Did you use proper cam lubricant on the cam when you installed the points?

Dean

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JMOR

05-09-2008 16:54:47




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Bruce (VA), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

Sean (TX) said: (quoted from post at 19:26:35 05/09/08) Lobes ar shiney. Flats are a darker color. Dont look like rust. The flats are not smooth as a baby A**...Emory cloth? I have lost count of the # of points I have gone through!!


Dark flats are dark because nothing touches/rubs them. I wouldn't use emery cloth due to risk of roughing up the peaks, where rubbing does occur.

Just an opinion.

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Dean

05-09-2008 16:51:57




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Sean:

The points could have slipped if the mounting screws were not sufficiently tight and/or if improper mounting screws were used.

More likely, the rubbing block has worn down causing the gap to decrease.

Do the points have the (good) phenolic rubbing block material or the less desireable black plastic rubbing block?

Did you use proper cam lubricant on the cam when you installed the points?

Dean

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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 16:29:05




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
I have had this tractor since july 2006...



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 16:26:35




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Dunk, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Lobes ar shiney. Flats are a darker color. Dont look like rust. The flats are not smooth as a baby A**...Emory cloth? I have lost count of the # of points I have gone through!!



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Bob

05-09-2008 16:14:06




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Take a CLOSE look at the distributor cam. Ideally, it should be about a perfect mirror finish.

Are there any nicks, rough spots, or rusted spots?



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 15:57:18




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Rod.........Sorry, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Just tried it. Got them to open but just barely...Distubutor lobes still have lube on them..



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 15:37:11




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Bruce (VA), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  

Bruce (VA) said: (quoted from post at 17:24:38 05/09/08) Points do slip closed! And, as I know from personal experience, the rubbing block on some of the ‘made overseas’ points do wear out sooner than you would expect. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. You may need to replace the hold-down screws.
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Ill bet these points have been in for 2 months. Not much use..New screws and star washers...Think I got the points at napa...Not blue streak the other ones...Ill bet the wear bar is worn down again. I used the whole pill of lube on it to!!! I usually get a miss first...This has happened several times...Pretty much just stopped this time...

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Bruce (VA)

05-09-2008 15:24:38




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Points do slip closed! And, as I know from personal experience, the rubbing block on some of the ‘made overseas’ points do wear out sooner than you would expect. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. You may need to replace the hold-down screws.



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 15:11:14




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to TennesseeMan, 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Going to be 98° on Saturday. Global warming? Fred will be up and running soon enough. May use his distributor for a while in the 9N.. Thanks again for the loom...Got to have one of those...



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HCooke

05-09-2008 15:07:59




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Another reason to have more than one tractor. I will mail your loom early next week.



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Sean (TX)

05-09-2008 15:04:14




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to GB in MT., 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
Its a old braker plate. Has new allen head set screws and star washers. Im starting too cool down. Ill see if I can open the gap shortly...Points were pretty new.



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Dunk

05-09-2008 14:54:09




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 Re: Points closed up again... in reply to Sean (TX), 05-09-2008 14:25:29  
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