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Auger Options for 8N's

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nondem

05-13-2008 10:34:53




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I'm waiting for parts but have the 8n on my mind :) Been thinking about impliments - Getting an auger is in my top three "wants" as far as impliments go.
So although I've never operated an auger myself - I've done "pole-setting" duty behind a tractor-auger a few times. The way I saw it done - the operator positioned the auger over the position he wanted to dig - then lowered the auger-tip till it slightly penetrated the ground THEN turned the PTO on. Doing it that way kept the auger from swinging wildly before it cut into the soil.
Now I've heard the lack of "live" hydrolics was a disadvantage with the 8N but up till now I A) Didn't have a good idea what "live" meant. B) Didn't see where it could be a problem(ignorance). Who cared if the PTO has to be spining for the lift to work.

So now I see that if the PTO has to spin for the lift to lower - that will be a problem if I wanna use an auger as I've seen them used.

Is the solution one of those augers I see with a handle that the operator can use to guide it? What might some other examples of implements be that would have problems with the 8N's PTO/hydro design?

And while I'm babbling on - I eyeballed a 1951 8n for sale last weekend at a big rural tractor dealer. It had been painted about 10 years ago and had Very-good tires all around - Sticker Price:$4995.00. I thought that a bit high but then what do I know....anyway the "salesman" was VERY knowledgable about 8N's. He said he worked on a farm with multiple 8N's full time in his youth(He is the right age for this to be true). He said they rebuilt the engines on them every-year and that with all the parts on hand - he could rebuild/resleeve the engine in about 8 hours once he had done it a few times.

I didn't let-on that I had one already so he would "ramble" on as long as possible allowing me time soak up his wisdom.

One thing he said struck a nerve with me because I've heard it before and it doesn't make sense to me. It usually goes something like this:

"The old N's aren't good for anything besides light box-blade work and maybe pulling a trailer."
I didn't say it but inside I was screaming "The soil hasn't changed since 1950 - What has changed to make it UNable to do all the things they were originally doing?" I realize modern tractors can do things faster and safer but that just means that N's can't do it as well - not that it can't do it at all.

If an N could pull a two-bottom plow in 1950 -what changed to make it incapable of that now?

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tesmith66

05-14-2008 09:25:21




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
I always shut 'er down if anyone approaches me.



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tatanka

05-14-2008 05:06:12




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
What you might think about is get a small bit to drill first, If you got a lot of root, that may help break up, then go to the bigger bit. And with the pilot hole, you may just come out ahead.



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ericlb

05-13-2008 16:37:02




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
as mentioned the auger will work fine on the 8n after the first hole raise the auger out of the hole, turn the pto off drive to the next hole drop the auger bit on the spot then trun the pto back on to drill, the fun comes with a brush hog usually when finished mowing a area,turn the pto off and wait for it to stop spinning, turn the tractor off and put it in gear, remove the drive shaft from the pto, get back on the tractor and start it, reingage the pto and lift the mower and transport, the comment about the little N's not being good for something come from several kinds of folks, 1, those who have never owned one or used one, 2 younger folks who by the time they were old enough to operate a tractor their folks had much larger tractors they used larger impliments with them, example; the n is a 2 bottom plow tractor, it you hook it to a 4 bottom plow it wont do much with it, if used with the proper impliments a n will do amazing things, remember these replaced 2 horses on a small farm when new when youve looked at a pair of horses hind ends all you life, a new n tractor was heaven itself!

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nondem

05-13-2008 15:12:41




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Ok, I was feeling much better about the auger option till the post about getting it stuck on a root or rock and having to get it out the hard way.
We don't have a lot of rocks but roots are another story.
I've already got a nice knot/bruise on my knee from when the tractor came to a sudden stop on a root and I didn't. My knee found one of the bolt heads on the dash and thats what stopped me. It was a wonderful feeling for about 3 minutes...

On another note: I'm up to three days now(parts get here tommorow) and the 300+ lb box-blade is still suspended at full-up :)

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tatanka

05-13-2008 12:35:52




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Depending on what your doing with the tractor. Here on the D&G Farm. We have a 5 Ft Brushhog,6ft Blade,Boom,Post holedigger,Springtooth/Chisel, 2 bottom plow, an old 82 chevy pick up bed trailer. We picked up most of these items at actions.
Got the plow for free, blade $100, boom $25,springtooth $125. trailer $125 filled with a lot of 2 inch pipe for fence and gate. Brushhog $350.

Good luck

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FloridaBoy

05-13-2008 12:34:19




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Just a safety reminder. My brother-in-law and I were using a PTO-driven auger and the ground was really hard. We couldn"t get it to go in past a few inches on this one hole in the edge of the driveway. We had been working a while and he had unbuttoned his denim work shirt. He was putting all of his weight on the auger trying to get it to go in when he started yelling to turn off the PTO. It had grabbed his shirt tail and was quickly pulling him into the auger. He"s a pretty strong fellow and pulled himself off the auger, ripping the shirt in half just as we were getting the PTO off. It left a pretty good welt and bruise on his arm and shoulder. All in all, he was very lucky. Can"t stress safety enought, it"s easy to forget.

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36 coupe

05-14-2008 01:05:58




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to FloridaBoy, 05-13-2008 12:34:19  
STAY AWAY FROM THE AUGER..A woman rented an auger a few years ago here and got killed when she got caught by the auger.On tough ground you can loosen the soil with a digging bar.Grass can keep the auger from starting the cut.I cant imagine anyone trying to push down on an auger.Plain stupid.Pto shafts can strip you bare and rip your arm off.My drill has a handle thats used to position the bit.I stay on the tractor seat when the bit is turning.I watch helpers and step on the clutch if they get near near the bit.I tell them up front to stay well away from the bit.

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tatanka

05-14-2008 05:11:45




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to 36 coupe, 05-14-2008 01:05:58  
I agree with 36 coupe. Here are some words to live by on every thing you do. I have this posted in the shop

LIVE SAFETY- I take safety seriously..... .all other successes depend on it!



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gahorN

05-14-2008 05:51:37




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to tatanka, 05-14-2008 05:11:45  
I was drilling a hole for a birdhouse, in rocky, clay with roots. :?
It got hung up on a root and the auger came to a sudden halt. My neighbor (and old farm hand) came up just at that moment and yelled at me to stay on the seat, and he grabbed a crowbar and stuck it thru the universal joint-spider and started un-twisting the auger to back it up out/off the root.
With the tractor running (and my foot on the clutch) I couldn't get his attention over the noise to get away from that auger. ... If my foot had slipped off the clutch...or if I's simply let go..... (and my experience level with the tractor and this auger being at the first-timer's-use level.....) ...

...He'd likely have been seriously mangled and/or killed! (As an old farm-boy...you'dda thoght he'dda known better than to do that stunt with a city-mouse like me sittin' on the seat) :shock:

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soundguy

05-13-2008 12:45:56




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to FloridaBoy, 05-13-2008 12:34:19  
that's what them poles are for.. so you are not right on the implement.

soundguy



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tatanka

05-13-2008 12:18:40




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Ive gotten used to my auger with a 9" bit from TSC. My father in law got it for me for a birthday present. Depeding on the soil, some clay here, take off some of the screws leaving just a point on the bit. Leave the cutter blades. In clay them screws on the end of the bit just screw in the ground before you can lift the auger up. Ive had to unscrew twice now with a pipewrench anf cheater. Had to get my neighbor to pull it out with his bobcat once.. clear the hole a lot. ease the bit in every time, Take your time and have patients will eliminate the aggrevation. Befor I got my boom. I wold take off the auger and gearbox, and use the the rest for a boom to pull fence post. Made a bracket to fit the pin with a chain and hook. Works great. Boom get stuff further away from the tractor.

Here is some pics of my gate. 6 In pipe. We drilled 3 holes for each post to get plenty of concrete in there.

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souNdguy

05-13-2008 12:15:12




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
I agree with the others.. run at low rpm, and lift often.. even every few inches to amke sure the hole stays clear.

soundguy



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gshadel

05-13-2008 12:07:49




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
That's way too high for a N unless it has solid gold lug nuts.
I have dug a thousand holes with a auger. Only run the engine at a fast idle, stomp the clutch and lower the auger to get pin-point placement accuracy for where you want to dig, then let off the clutch. Raise & lower the auger often to keep the hole clear. You can dig just fine with a N & auger. I have one of those long handles on my auger and NEVER use it, I tie it up with a bungee cord to keep it out of my way.
It's not a "problem", but sometimes inconvenient when running a mower or bushhog without live PTO. Sometimes I have to take the tractor out of gear, let off the clutch to get the mower up to speed, then stomp the clutch, put'er in gear, and take off.

George

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Colin King

05-13-2008 11:48:55




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
That's an awful lot for an 8N. With a sales pitch like that and a sticker price that high, he'll have a hard time selling it, even if the customer is a star struck first time buyer like I was :-)

My 8N spent Sunday disking our market garden.

Colin, MN



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Dunk

05-13-2008 11:30:40




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
nondem, just wait till the first time you get the auger hung on a root, or a rock, and have to take it all apart, and unscrew it out of the ground with a pipe wrench, and a cheater bar...
:lol:



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Pooh Bear

05-13-2008 11:19:45




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  

nondem said: He said they rebuilt the engines on them every-year....


I say he is lying on that one.

And the price is way too high.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -

The PTO doesn't need to be turning for the lift to go down.

It only needs to be turning for the lift to go up.

Power up, gravity down.

Pooh Bear

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russbWA

05-13-2008 11:13:21




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
IMO, the biggest problem associated with non-live hydro. is when you dis-engage the clutch to stop the auger, you also stop power to the lift. The auger will feed itself down, but when you can't lift it quickly enough it gets stuck. Therefore it is desirable to be able to stop the auger, but not the hydraulics/lift

You can add a pump in front or you may be able to find a rope operated clutch for the pto. I am not sure about the later..

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old

05-13-2008 10:50:54




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Well first off the 3 point will go down with or with out the PTO engage, but it will not go up with out it being engaged. As far as what there good for compared to a lot of other tractors yes they can not do much but again they have in the past done a lot and still can there just slow at doing those things. Now as far as the price of that 8N yep thats way to high common price for them is $1500 in ruff shape but running up to around $3500 in show room shape

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cj3b_jeep

05-13-2008 10:49:49




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 Re: Auger Options for 8N's in reply to nondem, 05-13-2008 10:34:53  
Seems REALLY high for an 8n...anyway, you don't need live hydraulics to lower the three point, just to raise it. That being said, you can drop the auger point into the ground, then start the PTO.



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