Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum
Order Ford 8N Parts Online

8N Froze-up

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
8N Harry

02-24-2000 21:43:28




Report to Moderator

Took my 8N out of the shed the other day. It was put in there in 84. The SN is 8N3215 with a front distributer. Started cleaning it up to do a compression test to try to see if the motor is still ok. The plugs looked good, gray. The oil looked ok and the tranmission fluid looked ok. When I went to turn it over, with the plugs out, the starter moved slightly, like taking up the slack and nothing moved. Acts like its either froze-up or locked-up. Need help, Thanks ahead of time for any advice.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Nolan

02-25-2000 05:49:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to 8N Harry, 02-24-2000 21:43:28  
Here's to hoping you didn't manage to break a ring(s). For I think you're going about this wrongly.

The engine has been sitting for 15 years. You don't hit an engine like that with a starter motor and promptly try to do compression checks. The engine has no oil anywhere except the bottom of the pan, and almost assuredly has rust on the ferous parts. Those are things like camshafts, crankshafts, bores, rings, etc.

Considering how easy it is to pull the head, I'd pull the head. That way I can see how the bores look and judge how my rings and such are to know if I'm going to have to rebuild it, or if I can get away with it.

I'd try turning the engine with a wrench on the crankshaft pulley. That's the only way I'd turn the engine, by hand. Gentle force. Does it move at all, or is it frozen solid?

If it moves at all, I'd immediately get oil down along the rings by simply dribbling some there. Hence the niceness of having the head off. This will greatly reduce the damage rust particles will do and reduce the chances of breaking a ring when it catches on the ridges in the bore from the rings sitting there for so long.

If it doesn't move at all, then I go on to white vinegar. Nice stuff. pour it in the cylinder bores, and let it disolve the rust. May take a couple of hours, may take a couple of days. Depends on how bad the rust is. Just keep checking the engine until it finally turns. Sop it up (again, nicer with the head off) once the engine turns, and oil things to float the rust particles. Examine how badly the bore is damaged and determine if I can live with the damage or if I must rebuild the engine.

Lets assume we've finally got the engine free, and that I can live with the damage in the bores. Head still off, I'd spend some time cranking the engine over by hand. I'm not trying to build up pressure, I'm trying to get oil circulating and onto bearing parts. I prefer to do this by hand so I can feel things like the scraping of a galled bearing.

I also will probably have pulled the lifter covers so I could jam all the valves open, eliminating the load on the cam faces. They are probably dry and rusty, spinning them against the lifters will result in damage.

After a while I'll stop cranking by hand(unspecified time, but usually until my arm gets good and tired). I want to see signs of oil flow though! Once I'm convinced the oil pump is indeed moving oil, I'd use the starter motor to spin it faster, and see if I can get oil pressure now.

Got pressure? Good, keep cranking. This gets the oil into/onto all those areas that are dry and probably rusty, or at least have rust particles floating around on them, without putting a load on them like compression or valve springs do. It also takes one heck of a long time to get oil into and through completely bone dry passages. I like to crank an engine for something on the lines of half an hour on the starter motor. Yes, that means breaks to cool the starter down, as well as recharging the battery. Fine by me!

Only after all this would I start allowing valves, one at a time, to ride against the camshaft. Again, I'd spin by hand to feel for anything. I'm not going to simply pull the camshaft if I feel galling, but I'm certainly going to note which valves induced it for future reference.

After all the valves are riding on the camshaft, going up and down properly, with oil pressure being sustained, would I put the head back on. Plugs installed to give me compression, so I can listen for interesting crankshaft sounds against compression.

Then, and only then, would I do a compression test. I also wouldn't get worked up yet if a reading was low. Stuck rings are quite likely in this engine due to the years it's spent sitting. I'd simply note the low compression.

Now is when I'd consider trying to start the engine. Once I've got it running (ignoring the blue smoke) I'd be listening very closely for evil engine sounds.

About now I'd change the oil again. I don't like rust floating around in the oil, especially with the filtration system the N uses. I'd very seriously contemplate using a flush. But that would be predicated on how much sludge I found on things while I was in there. The flush has a fair chance of helping to losen up the probably stuck rings. Dump again, but this time I would probably use good old Marvel Mystery Oil. For whatever reason, the darn stuff seems to work well.

Work the tractor gently, with increasing loads as I verify that things are working adequately. It would be a while before this machine saw something as harsh as plowing with me.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ron

02-25-2000 08:12:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to Nolan, 02-25-2000 05:49:59  
I agree with Nolan, you need to take it easy on them, until you know what you have, remember these things are over 50 years old, when I purchased my 8N, it was supposed to be setting only over the winter, a period of a few months, when I tried to start it, before buying, and it would not turn over, a dead battery was the first suspect, so while winching it up on the trailer, I put it in second gear and hit the winch button, this resulted in sliding both rear tires about a foot on the gravel, motor was locked up tight, then we discussed price again, after I got it home, and pulled all the plugs, number one was wet and rusted, the rest were black and oily, off comes the head, found a blown gasket, soaked all the cylinders for three days in marvel mystery oil, just poured the whole can on top of them, three days later, still locked up, can't turn by wrench, found that water had leaked into the cylinder, ran down the open valves, and rusted the lifters in their bores, had to pull guides, valves, etc, use a looooonnnnggg drill bit and drill them out, needless to say, complete rebuild, after many hours, too much money, and the great help of this board, I have a pretty good tractor, my first, but not my last.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Harry

02-25-2000 07:44:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to Nolan, 02-25-2000 05:49:59  
Thanks, you sure give a detailed report. Hopefully I didn't break a ring. I'll get busy.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steve (IA)

02-25-2000 02:38:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to 8N Harry, 02-24-2000 21:43:28  
The starter could possibly be stuck on the ring gear. This will bind up the motor and appear as though motor is frozen. This happens to my 49. To fix, loosen the 2 bolts holding the starter and back them out about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. If starter is loose on the bolts, I'd guess it's not the starter binding. If starter is not loose, drive starter forward with a screw driver or chisel driven between the starter and the tractor. When starter releases, you can here it (sproing!)and starter will be loose, hanging on the bolts.
Retighten bolts. Before trying starter again, put tractor in gear and rock it by hand to see if motor/tranny is free. Hope this is some help. Steve 8N 169302

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Harry

02-25-2000 07:52:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to Steve (IA), 02-25-2000 02:38:40  
Thanks, I think I'll ck the starter first as you suggested. Everything looked pretty good till now. Hope that's my only problem but I still have to rewire and fix the gauges.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mason W.V.

02-27-2000 20:02:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: 8N Froze-up in reply to Harry, 02-25-2000 07:52:06  
Look for the starter first, A year ago I bought A 2N for 500.00 with all kinds of acc. because the starter was stuck. Rebuilt the starter runs like A top.. Hope you have the same luck.. C-YA Mason W.V.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy